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 Post subject: Why isn't there a tent organisation for ultra-left
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:44 pm 
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By ultra-left I mean, historically Left Communist, basically all of you guys here on red-marx (for the most part).

By "tent organisation" I mean, an organisation that houses us all.

Why isn't there one, and should there be one?

To quote The Commune

"can't a broad provisional program with historically contingent concise communist content be derived [with] some unity on that basis?"

"I mean we're all against nationalism [and] against Soviet-style ****, we all more or less agree on all the major programmatic principles."

"where's the real debate within the leftcom millieu? Aside from arcana and theoretical abstractions"

"as I said*, ultimately unresolvable on the basis of militants on the internet divining it from the texts and their dialectical skills"

"the Bolsheviks before 1921 had inner-party democracy and unofficial as well as temporary factions. if such an org had existed for the last 5 years, would it really have had any splits over the practical issues that arose in international affairs and working-class uprisings lately?"

*"the truth is our 'theory' and 'programs' cannot be resolved outside of class struggle"

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't there a tent organisation for ultra-left
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Internationalist, You raise a most important topic, and of course there should be a "tent organization" and this could be achieved--in theory at least--right here at RedMarx. We're all opposed to capitalism and advocate some form of anarchism/socialism/communism, and that is an obvious "tent."

So why not begin something? We could, for instance, hypothetically all bring our politics/tendencies to bear on OWS and develop a "tent program." It's for damn sure OWS needs some sort of radical focus that brings capitalism into question. It's one of the dismal wonders of modern politics in the Western world that Occupy Wall Street hasn't traced Wall Street to its capitalist roots. Amazing, but typical.

As for the left's inability to come together on anything, the first step in such a process needs to be a mutual focus--a project. Then the left will need to have some success in its mutual project, or else sectarian go-nowhere squabbles will be the rule. The major problem, though, is that the left doesn't know how to organize. Life has a deep organization the left needs to acknowledge and apply to human life.

I already know that life's deep organization gets no respect on left sites, but simply coming together in a hypothetical "tent organization" would amount to taking several steps in the right direction.

My red-green, attentive best.


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't there a tent organisation for ultra-left
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Well, I suppose the obvious thing to point out would be that the Italian and German lefts developed in a degree of separation from one another, and generally saw each other as manifestations of the enemy which they were fighting. The German left saw the Italian left as part of the Leninist trend which it was fighting in Germany, and the Italian left saw the German left as a manifestation of tendencies towards syndicalism. The emergence of organisations which took a third perspective and saw both currents as providing useful contributions which needed to be synthesised in order to be properly utilised only started to occur in the 60's and 70's. The reason the ICC and ICT currently exist as separate organisations is because of their disagreements on the nature of the state in the period of transition, the role of the party, the reasons why exactly the current situation is to be classified as the epoch of capitalism's decadence as well as some historical bad blood.

As far as I remember the historical bad blood had something to do with a series of conferences during the late 70's that was intended to unite the various disparate left-communist groupings existing at the time into a unified entity. The end result was that Battaglia Comunista and the CWO in Britain formed the IBRP which became the ICT. The ICC participated but left for reasons I wouldn't want to discuss, not having been there myself, and being currently and mysteriously unable to find the article's on the ICC site dealing with the subject.

If you're asking more broadly about the other groups that are sometimes classified under the banner of the 'ultra-left', well that would include a lot of groups which are explicitly against premeditated organisational forms designed to intervene in struggles. If you're asking only about groups that explicitly take their lead from the left communist groups of the 20's, we'd have to exclude the Bordigists because most of them are pretty set on their own groups as the one true party™, but apart from that, the question would depend on what we see as adequate grounds for a shared organisation, and our answer will probably vary depending on whether these are wider or smaller.

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't there a tent organisation for ultra-left
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:17 am 
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Internationalist wrote:
By ultra-left I mean, historically Left Communist, basically all of you guys here on red-marx (for the most part)


What do you mean by 'historically' leftcom, the only person here that might have been part of the communist left as a distinct historical tendency is the user 'Communist Left', most others here that identify as left communist or with heavy left communist sympathies are not old enough to have been alive at such a time. As for the actual proposal, It would seem to be aimed at making a centralised and formal expression of the already existing international network of the 'ultra-left', and I don't see the point of such an organisation existing at the current time when it would be at best a weak coalition of small organisations, without anymore significance than that possesed by such organisations currently.

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't there a tent organisation for ultra-left
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Savage wrote:
Internationalist wrote:
By ultra-left I mean, historically Left Communist, basically all of you guys here on red-marx (for the most part)


What do you mean by 'historically' leftcom, the only person here that might have been part of the communist left as a distinct historical tendency is the user 'Communist Left', most others here that identify as left communist or with heavy left communist sympathies are not old enough to have been alive at such a time. As for the actual proposal, It would seem to be aimed at making a centralised and formal expression of the already existing international network of the 'ultra-left', and I don't see the point of such an organisation existing at the current time when it would be at best a weak coalition of small organisations, without anymore significance than that possesed by such organisations currently.


By historically leftcom I mean historically leftcom.

If you were to travel back in time, you would have been down with one of the historical "lefts," German-Dutch Left or otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't there a tent organisation for ultra-left
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:19 pm 
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"Why isn't there one, and should there be one?"

Do you think there should be one, and how do you envisage it would work?

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't there a tent organisation for ultra-left
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:20 pm 
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Umbrella organisations/fronts (which is same as your tent organisation) don't work in practice. It's really pointless to waste your time on that. Also, "ultra-left" (which is fucking stupid term... stop using it, please) is really broad. Council communists, Bordigists, situationists, comunization people etc. are all "ultra-left"... even some insurrectionary anarachists... and of course left communists. To have organisation which would unite all these tendencies would mean to have fucking chaos.

What I would prefere is that established leftcom organisations, both "big" like ICT and ICC, and small like KPK and TPTG, hold some meetings, conferences etc. where they'd try to see "what's going on" in the World and with the class struggle, share experience and try to find how can they co-op. So, the point would be to establish some kind of platform or forum... but not to unite everybody under same umbrella... People can work together and not to agree on question of party,, for example... right?

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't there a tent organisation for ultra-left
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:59 pm 
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I agree with Kontrazvedka. Before any kind of permanent common organisation can be formed, there has to be a whole process of discussion and practical cooperation around the principles we do agree on. I think we are seeing small signs of this, a growing awareness among at least parts of the movement that we have to start going beyond the old antagonisms, such as those between marxists and revolutionary anarchists, between different left communist currents, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't there a tent organisation for ultra-left
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:11 pm 
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To be clear I didn't post for a reason, and I had something much more of the nature of Kontra's talk in mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't there a tent organisation for ultra-left
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:26 am 
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Quote:
Internationalist: By ultra-left I mean, historically Left Communist, basically all of you guys here on red-marx (for the most part)

Savage: What do you mean by 'historically' leftcom, the only person here that might have been part of the communist left as a distinct historical tendency is the user 'Communist Left', most others here that identify as left communist or with heavy left communist sympathies are not old enough to have been alive at such a time.


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