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 Post subject: Voila Lev
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:08 pm 
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Hello comrades. I am a refugee from Revleft. I hope the atmosphere in this forum is less moralistic and overbearing. I am a Trotskyist of the "orthodox" brand. I look forward to some good polemical battles here.


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 Post subject: Re: Voila Lev
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:45 pm 
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oh tfm at least be welcoming.

Welcome aboard, we hate trots here, not really but whatever. Just post and figure it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Voila Lev
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:49 pm 
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welcome to the family. just don't expect much sympathy for "china = workers state" talk


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 Post subject: Re: Voila Lev
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:55 pm 
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Be wary: They banned A Marxist Historian pretty swiftly.

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 Post subject: Re: Voila Lev
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:39 pm 
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Welcome, I get the impression that you're a fucking ****.

As the SI once said;

"This revolution must once and for all break with its own prehistory and derive all its poetry from the future. Little groups of “militants” claiming to represent the “authentic Bolshevik heritage” are voices from beyond the grave; in no way do they herald the future. These relics from the great shipwreck of the “revolution betrayed” invariably end up defending the USSR; this is their scandalous betrayal of revolution. They can scarcely maintain their illusions outside the famous underdeveloped countries, where they serve to reinforce theoretical underdevelopment.(16) From Partisans (organ of reconciled Stalino-Trotskyist currents) to all the tendencies and semi-tendencies squabbling over the dead body of Trotsky within and outside the Fourth International, the same revolutionary ideology reigns, with the same theoretical and practical inability to grasp the problems of the modern world. Forty years of counterrevolution separate them from the Revolution. Since this is not 1920, they can only be wrong (and they were already wrong in 1920)."

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 Post subject: Re: Voila Lev
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:18 pm 
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Don't mind tsm, Lev. He's the resident deranged weirdo and is obsessed with Guy Debord and Situationism.

Sorry about the hostility, this is kind of like a revleft ultra-left regroupment thing after they got purged, they don't like Leninists that much. But at least you have somewhere to post and correspond with other Marxists.

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"There is no trace of utopianism in Marx, in the sense that he invented or imagined a 'new society.' No, he studied the birth of the new society from the old, the forms of transition from the latter to the former as a natural historical process. He examined the actual experience of the mass proletarian movement and tried to draw practical lessons from it. He 'learned' from the Commune, like all the great revolutionary thinkers who were not afraid to learn from the experience of the great movements of the oppressed classes, and who never preached pedantic 'sermons.'"- Lenin
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 Post subject: Re: Voila Lev
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:19 am 
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"Like" has nothing to do with it. The issue is materially, historically, how "Leninists" "participate" in class struggle-- what they "have brought to the table so to speak." And we are, or at least I am, willing to argue that, but I am not going to waste time arguing with those whose a) have adapted to collaboration with the bourgeoisie, in one form or another (from the "Popular Front," to supporting Allende, or Chavez, or the MAS in Bolivia) b) want a Soviet Union of their very own c) regard the course of history since 1927 or 1937 to have been a "betrayal" of Bolshevism d) regard Lenin's Imperialism as being an "advance" in the Marxist critique of capital.

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 Post subject: Re: Voila Lev
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:18 am 
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[quote="Lev Bronsteinovich"]Hello comrades. I am a refugee from Revleft. I hope the atmosphere in this forum is less moralistic and overbearing. I am a Trotskyist of the "orthodox" brand. I look forward to some good polemical battles here.


USER BANNED: **** apologist/Crypto-Fascist/Jew-Zionist
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 Post subject: Re: Voila Lev
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:20 am 
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S.Artesian wrote:
"Like" has nothing to do with it. The issue is materially, historically, how "Leninists" "participate" in class struggle-- what they "have brought to the table so to speak." And we are, or at least I am, willing to argue that, but I am not going to waste time arguing with those whose a) have adapted to collaboration with the bourgeoisie, in one form or another (from the "Popular Front," to supporting Allende, or Chavez, or the MAS in Bolivia) b) want a Soviet Union of their very own c) regard the course of history since 1927 or 1937 to have been a "betrayal" of Bolshevism d) regard Lenin's Imperialism as being an "advance" in the Marxist critique of capital.

I'll take each point. a)No issue, the pop fronts were disasterous betrayals of the proletariat that no real Trotskyist would support, b) I don't know exactly what you mean by that so I'll go on to c) To be more precise, the thermidor in the USSR really began in 1924, IMO. Obviously things were not exactly going swimmingly up to that point. But I would, retroactively of course, give political support to the USSR until 1924. After that, military support only. I am familiar with the conditions in the USSR at the time of the revolution and the decade following. d) I actually have not read Imperalism in about 30 years. I recall that it was awfully good, but not nearly as important as "The State and Revolution." If I have a chance I will reread it and get back to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Voila Lev
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:26 am 
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[quote="thesadmafioso"]Welcome, I get the impression that you're a fucking ****.

As the SI once said;

"This revolution must once and for all break with its own prehistory and derive all its poetry from the future. Little groups of “militants” claiming to represent the “authentic Bolshevik heritage” are voices from beyond the grave; in no way do they herald the future. These relics from the great shipwreck of the “revolution betrayed” invariably end up defending the USSR; this is their scandalous betrayal of revolution. They can scarcely maintain their illusions outside the famous underdeveloped countries, where they serve to reinforce theoretical underdevelopment.(16) From Partisans (organ of reconciled Stalino-Trotskyist currents) to all the tendencies and semi-tendencies squabbling over the dead body of Trotsky within and outside the Fourth International, the same revolutionary ideology reigns, with the same theoretical and practical inability to grasp the problems of the modern world. Forty years of counterrevolution separate them from the Revolution. Since this is not 1920, they can only be wrong (and they were already wrong in 1920)."


Why do you never write posts in fancy font? :(
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