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 Post subject: Re: Official RedMarx punk thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:20 am 
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Eh, for starters I would've gone for something more along the lines of:






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"The death of the poor man is the worst eventuality for the creditor. It is the death of his capital together with the interest."
- Marx, Comments on James Mill -

"Citizen Weston illustrated his theory by telling you that a bowl contains a certain quantity of soup, to be eaten by a certain number of persons, an increase in the broadness of the spoons would produce no increase in the amount of soup. He must allow me to find this illustration rather spoony."
- Marx, Value, Price and profit -
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 Post subject: Re: Official RedMarx punk thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:30 am 
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It's not so much that any band is particularly out of place as that 70's British punk is often pretty major key sounding to the extent that a lot of it sounds like sped up, angry, pop music. Black Flag on the other hand have the ever elusive \m/ factor (And I like most of BF's output, even the slowed down sludgey stuff - come at me, punks).

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"The death of the poor man is the worst eventuality for the creditor. It is the death of his capital together with the interest."
- Marx, Comments on James Mill -

"Citizen Weston illustrated his theory by telling you that a bowl contains a certain quantity of soup, to be eaten by a certain number of persons, an increase in the broadness of the spoons would produce no increase in the amount of soup. He must allow me to find this illustration rather spoony."
- Marx, Value, Price and profit -


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 Post subject: Re: Official RedMarx punk thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:38 am 
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Well if you like that you'll love these guys:



:D

(Zanthorus used thread-ruining posts, it's super-effective)

_________________
"The death of the poor man is the worst eventuality for the creditor. It is the death of his capital together with the interest."
- Marx, Comments on James Mill -

"Citizen Weston illustrated his theory by telling you that a bowl contains a certain quantity of soup, to be eaten by a certain number of persons, an increase in the broadness of the spoons would produce no increase in the amount of soup. He must allow me to find this illustration rather spoony."
- Marx, Value, Price and profit -


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 Post subject: Re: Official RedMarx punk thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:54 am 
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Like The Clash and Cockney Rejects... even, early Agnostic Front, but Choking Victim? Come on... But we have to make difference here sub-genres of punk music. Best punk, imho, is 77 British punk and 80's Oi.

At the beginning punk wasn't musically defined like is today. It wasn't 3 chords, guitar, bass and drums and you go all dressed up in leather jacket with spikes (like those wankers from The Casualties). You have great bands such as The Clash and The Ruts which combined reggae, dub, ska with British pub rock and mod r'n'b, you have old school street fighters like **** Sparrer with their football songs, you have sax driven X-Ray Spex (the best 77 band in my opinion, after the Clash of course), you have Penetration, you have pre-gothic The Damned and Siouxie and The Banshees, you even have bloody nihilism of *** Pistols, you have terrific The Adverts etc. Early British scene rules. When it comes to US at that time first 4 albums of Ramones really rule, later they've become fucking boring and too popish, plus new generations of punx pretty much turned their music into irrelevant. Of course in US we have Dead Boys and The Germs...

Now, second wave is also quite interesting. For example, Americans manage to create some good band as 80's US hardcore punk scene rule as it's original and as it came out of their own life circumstances. There's too much bands here to name, but my favorites are SS Decontrol, Bad Brains, Youth Brigade (from DC), Siege, The Effigies, Wasted Youth, Negative FX, Last Rights, Minor Threat, Deep Wound, DRI etc. Under the influence of UK scene there was even interesting oi band in New York called The Press which is held responsible for SHARP scene etc. Now, in UK we have two separate punk scenes. One is UK 82 with bands who basically copy-paste *** Pistols or The Adverts sound, but also with genius bands such as early Chaos UK and Disorder, plus legendary Discharge, without which Finland, Sweden, Yugoslavia, Brazil and Japan would never produce such great raw hardcore bands. We can put some genuine Oi! and RAC bands here, even RAC had scene for its own, cause they were Nazi wankers. Second scene was anarcho punk scene with all those terrible bands, except Amebix and KUKL (**örk's anarcho punk band), terrible politics, terrible sound, terrible dressing etc. I don't know here I like US hardcore because it's fast and raw and from same reason I like early Oi!. The only difference is that US hardcore is middle class music with middle class topics (such as I hate my parents, I wanna do heroin, I hate work blah blah blah), while Oi! has working class topics (such as "one law for them one law for us", "rivers of blood", **** trade unions, "oi Kinnock give us back our rose" etc.).

For present day punk I pretty much don't care. Even, there interesting sub-genres such as powerviolence, while there are some completely repulsive such as crust punk...

Anyhow, this is my opening shitstorm and here we go:






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The worst sin we commit is that we degrade our political and organisational tasks to the level of the immediate, “palpable”, “concrete” interests of the everyday economic struggle; yet they keep singing to us the same refrain: Lend the economic struggle itself a political character! We repeat: this kind of thing displays as much “sense for the realities of life” as was displayed by the hero in the popular fable who cried out to a passing funeral procession, “Many happy returns of the day!”
Lenin, What Is To Be Done?
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 Post subject: Re: Official RedMarx punk thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:04 am 
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Искра wrote:
...US hardcore is middle class music with middle class topics...

...completely repulsive such as crust punk...


Sparky, please.

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"The death of the poor man is the worst eventuality for the creditor. It is the death of his capital together with the interest."
- Marx, Comments on James Mill -

"Citizen Weston illustrated his theory by telling you that a bowl contains a certain quantity of soup, to be eaten by a certain number of persons, an increase in the broadness of the spoons would produce no increase in the amount of soup. He must allow me to find this illustration rather spoony."
- Marx, Value, Price and profit -


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 Post subject: Re: Official RedMarx punk thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:13 am 
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Ok, maybe not all US hardcore... The Effigies have ok topics, but come on... read Minor Thread's lyrics and all that ****. I grow up on that, but still I'm gonna say it that there's really big difference in lyrics by band which came out of middle class kids and those by working class kids.




And crust punk is repulsive. Ideologically and ascetically. Even, there are some good bands, but then it depends what's crust for you. I don't consider d-beat hardcore bands (also refereed as discore) as crust.

_________________
The worst sin we commit is that we degrade our political and organisational tasks to the level of the immediate, “palpable”, “concrete” interests of the everyday economic struggle; yet they keep singing to us the same refrain: Lend the economic struggle itself a political character! We repeat: this kind of thing displays as much “sense for the realities of life” as was displayed by the hero in the popular fable who cried out to a passing funeral procession, “Many happy returns of the day!”
Lenin, What Is To Be Done?


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 Post subject: Re: Official RedMarx punk thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:21 am 
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Mine is Blink 182 :D

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The worst sin we commit is that we degrade our political and organisational tasks to the level of the immediate, “palpable”, “concrete” interests of the everyday economic struggle; yet they keep singing to us the same refrain: Lend the economic struggle itself a political character! We repeat: this kind of thing displays as much “sense for the realities of life” as was displayed by the hero in the popular fable who cried out to a passing funeral procession, “Many happy returns of the day!”
Lenin, What Is To Be Done?


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 Post subject: Re: Official RedMarx punk thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:30 am 
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Iskra - seriously? I think the idea that people's class background influences the lyrical themes of their music is more than a bit dumb. I mean, for starters you seem to consider quoting Enoch Powell and singing about kicking in the heads of communists as 'working-class' lyrical themes. I don't even know where to go with that one.

But if you want definitive proof that you're being an idiot, look at the new wave of british heavy metal. Most of those bands came from industrial/factory towns in the north and the midlands and plenty of the members of the bands had spent time working in factories. The tradition of metal bands from English factory towns goes back to Sabbath themself. By your logic, none of the early British metal bands could have had working-class members since none of them had 'working-class' lyrics. But that they were.

_________________
"The death of the poor man is the worst eventuality for the creditor. It is the death of his capital together with the interest."
- Marx, Comments on James Mill -

"Citizen Weston illustrated his theory by telling you that a bowl contains a certain quantity of soup, to be eaten by a certain number of persons, an increase in the broadness of the spoons would produce no increase in the amount of soup. He must allow me to find this illustration rather spoony."
- Marx, Value, Price and profit -
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 Post subject: Re: Official RedMarx punk thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:39 am 
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Oh yeah and:





Skinhead hardcore = your argument is invalid.

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"The death of the poor man is the worst eventuality for the creditor. It is the death of his capital together with the interest."
- Marx, Comments on James Mill -

"Citizen Weston illustrated his theory by telling you that a bowl contains a certain quantity of soup, to be eaten by a certain number of persons, an increase in the broadness of the spoons would produce no increase in the amount of soup. He must allow me to find this illustration rather spoony."
- Marx, Value, Price and profit -


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 Post subject: Re: Official RedMarx punk thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:47 am 
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Ok, I'll try to repeat it little bit better.

I've just said that there's distinctive lyrical difference between US hardcore bands which came out of middle class and British bands from working class. Of course, there are a lot of similarities and stuff like that and it can't be so easily cut down, but there's difference. For example, US bands sing a lot against their parents, having white collar jobs, working etc., on the other hands British bands sing about lousing jobs cause of Thatcher or immigrants. Now, it's quite clear that most of British bands with such lyrical themes were conservative and right wing (I'm not going to discuss RAC, cause that's something completely different), because those were ideas present in working class, no matter that most of them voted Labour in 70's, and I don't consider their political interpretation to be "working class", but the stuff they are singing about - their problems. Of course, you have bands in UK such as Skin-Deep, The Redskins, Red London or whatever, which give you different perspective, or ideological interpretation, of same problems. Most of US hardcore bands don't sing about such stuff. They sing about something completely different.

Tbh, I have no problems with what they used to sing about. I like both scenes and I like especially the fact that they are singing about real life stuff they were surrounded, unlike bands today which just go picking up "approved" topics (which is actually main reason why I consider crust and anarcho punk repulsive).

Now, you can't compare punk to metal, because they don't have same approach. Point of punk is message, while point of metal is music. So, metal bands, such as Black Sabbath, tried to express their environment on different level - on musical level and hence heavy sound of Black Sabbath, which was inspired by metal factory they used to work in (as they said so many times in their interviews).

PS. there's no such thing as "skinhead hardcore". These guys are just bald punks. Skinhead is all about ska, reggae and dancing with the ladies on moonlight ;)

_________________
The worst sin we commit is that we degrade our political and organisational tasks to the level of the immediate, “palpable”, “concrete” interests of the everyday economic struggle; yet they keep singing to us the same refrain: Lend the economic struggle itself a political character! We repeat: this kind of thing displays as much “sense for the realities of life” as was displayed by the hero in the popular fable who cried out to a passing funeral procession, “Many happy returns of the day!”
Lenin, What Is To Be Done?
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