RedMarx

A Forum
It is currently Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:10 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]



Welcome


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Sanctuary
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:05 am 
Offline
Comrade

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:41 pm
Posts: 620
Has thanked: 17 time
Have thanks: 25 time
With Trump's victory and his explicit, and enacted, plan to summarily deport immigrants, churches, universities, and entire cities have proclaimed themselves "sanctuaries," sanctuary churches, colleges, cities-- the mayors of LA, NYC, Santa Cruz, all say those cities are sanctuary cities, and that local police forces will not cooperate with the ICE or CBP police.

The declaration of sanctuary is a meaningless gesture, reminds me of nothing so much as the old declarations of "liberated zones" a la peoples' park in Berkeley, which nobody except me is old enough to remember.

And the term sanctuary, with all its religious connotations is pretty off-putting.

Most of all, it all involves a notion of privilege that is pretty much antithetical to advancing the struggle against nationalism, racism, abuse of immigrant on a class basis.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Sanctuary
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:32 pm 
Offline
Comrade

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:44 pm
Posts: 23
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 2 time
What, specifically, do you propose instead? Churches offering people sanctuary often in fact has a substantive material component to it. You haven't noticed this?


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sanctuary
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:45 pm 
Offline
Comrade

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:41 pm
Posts: 620
Has thanked: 17 time
Have thanks: 25 time
I propose demonstrations at detention centers, blocking vehicles carry immigrants to/from detention centers; workers preventing ICE entry into work places; teachers preventing ICE entry into schools-- not on the basis of "sanctuary," which strikes me as suppressing the class question, but based on the ICE actions as being part of the overall attack on labor.

Of course it, the sanctuary movement, has a substantive component; no less than black churches played a substantive role, for a period, in the black liberation struggle. That substantive role, and this substantive role, defines the struggle in a way that obscures class, and eventually aligns itself with preserving the institutions of repression themselves. Rev. Al Sharpton, anyone?

In a way, the sanctuary notion is akin to the latest ******** being floated about the east coast and the west coast seceding and establishing their own nation.

What do you propose?


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sanctuary
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:37 pm 
Offline
Comrade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:13 pm
Posts: 1763
Has thanked: 275 time
Have thanks: 572 time
The idea of sanctuary also serves to create a 'vanguard' in the sense that it isolates the given sanctuary in to a kind of 'fortress.' Which sounds great, except fortresses are the obvious place to attack. Such shows of attack also serve to intimidate others in to perfect compliance. Like Arty said some time ago about vanguards "first in war, first in peace, first to get carried the **** out feet first."

Essentially, it could be mentally modeled as having all the weaknesses associated with socialism in one country. The goal isn't to build walls and keep the old society away from us as we build the new from scratch, but to combat the existing society and seize it in order to alter it.

_________________
Creation isn't beautiful. You inspire the ugliest things.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sanctuary
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:13 am 
Offline
Comrade

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:47 pm
Posts: 394
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 8 time
The problem is that it suggests that there are solutions for victimized communities available within the same state apparatus that does the victimizing.

The other problem is that these 'sanctuary cities' are houses of cards. There's only a flimsy guarantee at the local level that local police won't enforce immigration laws, not that ICE and co. can't or won't simply mount up and make large, violent raids in such areas at their pleasure. It wouldn't surprise me to see a kind of super-Swift Raid on a city like San Francisco, as the money related threats from Trump's administration on such cities don't look realistic, and, they already promised a personnel and budget surge for immigration cops.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sanctuary
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:26 am 
Offline
Comrade

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:44 pm
Posts: 23
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 2 time
So, S. Artesian, what is your point here? Are you proposing a specific ongoing real world alternative? If so, let's hear it.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sanctuary
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:04 am 
Offline
Comrade

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:41 pm
Posts: 620
Has thanked: 17 time
Have thanks: 25 time
Already answered that. What I have proposed is just as real as proclaiming "sanctuary."

Like "liberated" or autonomous "zones," sanctuary as a program cannot advance the struggle, and winds up co-opting opposition and strengthening representatives and institutions of the ruling class. Is that specific and real enough for you?


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sanctuary
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:42 am 
Offline
Comrade

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:44 pm
Posts: 23
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 2 time
No, it is not.

Let's assume I missed something here.

Point me in the direction of this real world specific proposal of yours.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sanctuary
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:43 am 
Offline
Comrade

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:44 pm
Posts: 23
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 2 time
Okay, whooops -- sorry, I see it now.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sanctuary
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:45 am 
Offline
Comrade

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:44 pm
Posts: 23
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 2 time
These all sound good. Are you trying to get something along these lines rolling now?

The fellows at 'Insurgent Notes' could certainly do with a little practice experiencing real world sustained collective action. Maybe they are up for it.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Donate Now
Donate Now



Hosted by © 2017 FreeForums.org | Create a free forum | Powered by phpBB
About FreeForums | Legal | Advertise Here | Investors | Contact FreeForums.org
Report Violation

Design By Poker Bandits  

suspicion-preferred