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 Post subject: Reflecting on the decline of RedMarx and other stuff.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:55 pm 
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Redmarx declined obviously, why? Well we could obviously point a lot of fingers at tfm because **** that guy, we could also point fingers at the general administration style perhaps, or we could blame the posters that make-up the actual forum, posts come from posters no?

These are probable explanations, but I'd like to extend a Marxist view to the issue, an explanation that perhaps does not apply in the case of Redmarx which may have been more a victim of its own smallness or something such that it wasn't a victim of the following explanation.

Marxism is the logic of the proletariat, the highest form of expression of working class consciousness (correct me if I'm wrong). Marx himself wrote and existed in a time of relatively class struggle, he and Engels also noted the need to destroy or eliminate communist organisations in times of little to no class struggle.

“When the conditions no longer permit an organization to act effectively, when it simply comes down to keeping the tie together that unites the association for the time being in order to re-utilize it at the occasion ; those people can always be found who are not able to accommodate themselves to this situation and who simply want to play busybody and demand ‘to do something’, whereas this something cannot be something else than a stupidity.”-Engels

Here I think Engels may have been saying that it IS difficult to keep the ties together, that the job has become to keep the ties present.

When the proletariat is not struggling, when there is no united proletariat in any meaningful sense, I think we could trace a general decline in Marxist's organisations. The Russian Revolutionary time spawned a lot of decent to good organisations that were then bastardized and pretty much **** by the time WW2 rolled around.

The Marxist fragment of revleft was expelled and came here at a time of relatively high class struggle, and we saw some good activity here on Redmarx, now that class struggle has receded (as far as I can tell) Redmarx has declined, perhaps irreversibly so, class struggle moves in fits and starts and the same forms of organisation are not always re-used, as such Marxists may not organise in the same fashion as before just the same. I have heard the facebook group (most people will know what I'm referring to, for those that don't, I don't know the name of it either) is popular, though I'm not involved in it so I can't pass judgement.

To simplify what I'm saying.

Marxism is the logic of the proletariat, when the proletariat is united and thinking, their logic is strong, when they are scattered and too busy trying to survive, their logic is weak.

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 Post subject: Re: Reflecting on the decline of RedMarx and other stuff.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:43 pm 
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It was a good run. Just like in Biology it's necessary for Cells to Apoptosize, Engels obviously saw this as the logical conclusion for communist organizations operating in a time of virtually no class struggle.

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 Post subject: Re: Reflecting on the decline of RedMarx and other stuff.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:16 pm 
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Yeah, I think trying to apply some kind of 'marxist analysis' to an internet forum that only ever really had a handful of regular posters is a little silly, to put it mildly.

[quote="Broletariat"]an explanation that perhaps does not apply in the case of Redmarx which may have been more a victim of its own smallness or something

^This seems about right to me. Red-marx had a handful of regular posters, life happens, things come up, the forum stagnated as a result. Also red-marx didn't really have a clear reason for existence, IMO (i.e. a purpose that wasn't already served by some other forum with a larger userbase/more traffic/more discussions, whether libcom or revleft or whatever). I really don't think there's a whole lot more to "the decline of redmarx" than that, to be honest.

Although there was also sort of a disparate group here, which I remember coming up in discussion before. There were some people who are really into like this Talmudic dissection of WHAT MARX SAID ABOUT THINGS, and thought that should be the focus of the forum (I think this was the basis for the creation of the forum). Personally, I generally find that about as interesting and relevant as watching a baseball game or hearing about what an elderly person had to eat today or staring at a patch of drywall, and am more interested in understanding things going on in the world today (using a broadly 'marxist' methodology, granted) than in analyzing the tortuous minutiae of THINGS A BEARDED ******** SAID IN 1867. I know there are others here who don't seem that up on the obscure 'marxological' stuff too (in fact I think there's really only three posters who tended to provide informed contributions to those kinds of discussions). Basically I think people here were united in getting kicked off revleft but otherwise don't have a whole lot in common (politically or otherwise), so the forum didn't really have a 'direction'.

Having said all that, it would be kind of cool if the forum could rebound a bit and have some discussions again, just to see how it went. I wouldn't really expect a particularly different outcome, but you never know (in other words, my work has been insanely slow lately and I need something to do while I'm sitting around waiting to pick up the next load of pee and blood during the day, so you know :) ).

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 Post subject: Re: Reflecting on the decline of RedMarx and other stuff.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:04 am 
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nine wrote:
I need something to do while I'm sitting around waiting to pick up the next load of pee and blood during the day, so you know :) ).


Maybe we can have a forum for interesting hobbies and body fluids?

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 Post subject: Re: Reflecting on the decline of RedMarx and other stuff.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:06 am 
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Savage wrote:
nine wrote:
I need something to do while I'm sitting around waiting to pick up the next load of pee and blood during the day, so you know :) ).

Maybe we can have a forum for interesting hobbies and body fluids?

Why, so I can be the only one who posts in it? :(
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 Post subject: Re: Reflecting on the decline of RedMarx and other stuff.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:44 pm 
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Broletariat wrote: "Marxism is the logic of the proletariat, the highest form of expression of working class consciousness (correct me if I'm wrong). Marx himself wrote and existed in a time of relatively class struggle, he and Engels also noted the need to destroy or eliminate communist organisations in times of little to no class struggle."

Well said comrade B. But there's a whole lot of stuff here that could be said about struggle under a vigorous and developing capitalism being different from struggle under a dying and decaying system. However, I'm not going to try and say it! It's not easy to say. But I think that whatever Marx and Engels did in the 19th century to save the 1st. International from the machinations of the anarchists doesn't apply to the situation today. First of all and unhappily we don't really have any communist organizations on a massive scale to close down. And you might argue that the ones we've got are themselves on the verge of extinction anyhow, because new and younger comrades don't want to join them. New and younger comrades are fearful of organizations and their threat to individualism, or at least, don't like being organized anyway.

But is it really true that we live in a time "of little to no class struggle"? We live at a time when capitalism is on its last legs: quite unlike the times in which Marx and Engels lived. The working class world wide is suffering terribly. Humanity and the planet groan as the system decays. There's a lot of class struggle in China; and some in India and Indonesia. And doubtless elsewhere. What there isn't as yet, is a struggle in the West that matches the depth of the crisis wreaking havoc on workers in the West. But surely it has to come. If it doesn't we're all doomed. So when it does come we will need all our forces to be ready. This applies to everyone who has acquired sufficient class consciousness to be able to understand the reality of the historic moment. The working class needs us just as we need them. We are part of it. We have to be aware of whatever contribution we are capable of making. Small or pointless that it may appear. We are not nihilists we are communists. And redmarx has its part to play and this is not a good time for its decline.


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 Post subject: Re: Reflecting on the decline of RedMarx and other stuff.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:16 pm 
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The decline of RedMarx is merely the decline of a formal shell, a finite existence that was only valid insofar as it bathed in the light of the universal spirit. Marxist truth can never decline, it merely sleeps for a while, before waking again, with even it's waking movements sending ripples which leave the bourgeoisie crippled in fear.

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- Marx, Value, Price and profit -


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 Post subject: Re: Reflecting on the decline of RedMarx and other stuff.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:56 am 
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Good one about the bourgeoisie being "crippled in fear". Do they know something that we don't? After all, given the sort of fortress state that they go in for now, with all their spying, and so on, what exactly is it they're so scared of? I know they're all scared of each other, competing with each other, at war with each other where they can afford and manage it, and generally uneasy with their world wide economic difficulties - but maybe they're frightened too of the effects of continuing austerity on an seemingly sleepy Western working class. It's consoling to think this even if it isn't true. I just hope we wake up soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Reflecting on the decline of RedMarx and other stuff.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:32 pm 
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They're afraid of Jack the Ripper due to their universal feminisation.

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 Post subject: Re: Reflecting on the decline of RedMarx and other stuff.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:21 am 
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I think nine's analysis has some pretty damn good merit to it. This place wasn't exactly started with any coherrent purpose in mind other than "yeah communism guys!".

However, I also think that the material conditions of the real world in large part dictate the struggle as broletariat and others have said, in which case the historical moment of the great recession and consequences such as the recall in wisconsin, arab spring, 15m march in Spain, etc, offered a pretty large boost in activity in general. While very few of the millions of those people made their way to redmarx granted, I think the looming recession could potentially spark more activity as people regroup to try and pick apart what's going on this time around in Capitalism the Crisis 2016: Electric Boogaloo.

Then again I would hope that people are too busy with these discussions taking place in real life where it actually matters, but for those of us where the struggle is not here we are on the internet.


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