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 Post subject: Re: RedMarx official TSM approved Post-Punk thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:48 pm 
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Surely you jest. Sexism against a female singer when the song being sung is "Lola"????? Come on. "I'm glad I'm a man and so is Lola"???

Kinks were well.....the Kinks. You Really Got Me; All Day and All of the Night; Who'll Be the Next in Line; the album Arthur or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire and the aforementioned Lola. It had a good beat, and you could dance to it.

It was rock and roll not Rimbaud or Lautremont. With no greater significance than that. Which is the whole point, there is no greater significance to rock and roll.

BTW, I always wanted to know... do Situationists dance? I knew a couple, or at least a couple who described themselves as Situationists and they couldn't dance worth a ****.

Tickles me a bit, I must admit though... how the spectacle encompasses everything except those things some people like.

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 Post subject: Re: RedMarx official TSM approved Post-Punk thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:14 pm 
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[quote="S.Artesian"]Surely you jest. Sexism against a female singer when the song being sung is "Lola"????? Come on. "I'm glad I'm a man and so is Lola"???

Kinks were well.....the Kinks. You Really Got Me; All Day and All of the Night; Who'll Be the Next in Line; the album Arthur or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire and the aforementioned Lola. It had a good beat, and you could dance to it.

It was rock and roll not Rimbaud or Lautremont. With no greater significance than that. Which is the whole point, there is no greater significance to rock and roll.

BTW, I always wanted to know... do Situationists dance? I knew a couple, or at least a couple who described themselves as Situationists and they couldn't dance worth a ****.

Tickles me a bit, I must admit though... how the spectacle encompasses everything except those things some people like.


Well, yeah, was a bit of a joke. I found the inversion inserted into the song added by the female perspective amusing though, as the man is being presented by a female singer, implying some level of fuckery with some gender binary or another.

By any measure, Lautremont was well beyond rock and roll anyway, Lautremont would have been the Johnny Rotten of his day.

We do, I guess, but very very poorly. I'm entirely incapable of making natural movements with my arms, legs, or any elements present on my body which in any way resemble dancing. I can move my head about to things in rhythm, but that's really it. I don't know maybe there are 'situationists' who are capable of dancing, but I've never seen one. Can you imagine Debord making a go at dancing? I have difficulties with as much.

On the last point, yes, in enough ways I probably like music with spectacular qualities still yet present to it. But punk and post-punk has a rather critical history to it on enough occasions. A great many lyrics used by the *** Pistols, Gang of Four, even Iggy Pop, among others, have some very clear points of inspiration from situationist theory. Lipstick Traces: A Secret History of the 20th Century amounts to a very intriguing read on the matter, really.



For instance, at home he's a tourist basically amounts to a thesis out of Society of the Spectacle wherein Debord comments on the expansion of the spectacle into the totality of the everyday has made it so the spectator is at home no where. Another line from the song, 'he fills his head with culture, he gives himself an ulcer', hardly strays from this critique of the productions and false life of the spectacle, with culture being treated in precisely the inverted manner that the situationists has previously exposed.



No Fun, or, that is to say, 'BOREDOM IS ALWAYS COUNTER-REVOLUTIONARY'. 'Feeling that same old way' basically amounts to a rejection of the endemic death of boredom foretold in The Revolution of Everyday Life, as do various other lines.

So on and so on.
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 Post subject: Re: RedMarx official TSM approved Post-Punk thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:30 pm 
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Read Lipstick Traces when it first came out... As for the *** Pistols... well two, at least two of the greatest songs, maybe three ever on their first album: "God Save the Queen," "Anarchy in the UK," and probably "Pretty Vacant" qualify.

Great album. Also loved Sham '69. Gang of Four another favorite. X-Ray Spex. Anybody besides me ever hear of ToniO and "Life in the Foodchain"?

But.... my favorite line from any rock and roll song? "My name is Bill and I'm a headcase" The Who's "I'm a Boy."

Went to school outside Detroit. Had to dance, if I wanted to get a date. Only reason I ever did anything-- school, learn to dance, work.... so I could get a date, or have money to go out on a date.

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 Post subject: Re: RedMarx official TSM approved Post-Punk thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:19 pm 
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[quote="S.Artesian"]Read Lipstick Traces when it first came out... As for the *** Pistols... well two, at least two of the greatest songs, maybe three ever on their first album: "God Save the Queen," "Anarchy in the UK," and probably "Pretty Vacant" qualify.

Great album. Also loved Sham '69. Gang of Four another favorite. X-Ray Spex. Anybody besides me ever hear of ToniO and "Life in the Foodchain"?

But.... my favorite line from any rock and roll song? "My name is Bill and I'm a headcase" The Who's "I'm a Boy."

Went to school outside Detroit. Had to dance, if I wanted to get a date. Only reason I ever did anything-- school, learn to dance, work.... so I could get a date, or have money to go out on a date.


Really? I wouldn't necessarily have guessed that, as Lipstick Traces is basically a history of the LI and SI told through sporadic references to the *** Pistols. Either way, great book, finally got around to finishing it myself just today.



Probably my favorite *** Pistols bit, minus the obvious God Save the Queen and Anarchy options. The last minute or so is just absolutely superb, the entirely incoherent rant about going over the Berlin Wall, topped with the parting statement that much of the same is waiting on the other side. EMI is another one of my favorites though.

Been listening to a lot of X-Ray Spex as of late too. Oh Bondage Up Yours is absolutely brilliant, it's the sort of song that I scream along to very loudly without really intending to.

God I would have been fucked growing up in Detroit. I've just been able to get away with the pseudo-intellectual with supposedly insightful things to say up to this point. It's usually enough to allow me to get by without work too even.
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 Post subject: Re: RedMarx official TSM approved Post-Punk thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:20 pm 
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Wasn't so bad when I was there-- it was my college days-- prior to age 17 I was in Chicago. So we're talking 1965-1969. Peak Motown years. League of Revolutionary Black Workers; Motor City Labor League; Aretha-- whose father Carl ran the New Bethel Baptist Church where black liberation group-- think it was RNA-- shot it out with the police, and won.

Great music. Good drugs. Period when if you could dance you could get a date with an awfully fine soul sister. Philly Dog, Boogaloo, Shing-a-Ling, learned them all.

Quite liked Lipstick Traces, don't really dislike the Situationists. Just think they take themselves way too seriously at times. Collaborated with couple of the "first" US situationists, I guess, Bruce Elwell and Robert Chasse.

Glad to have been there then. After 1973-- well the bourgeoisie figure they could easily outdo what black people did in 1967, as far as destruction goes. No doubt about it. Bourgeoisie's greatest talent is for destruction, which, BTW is the essence of the spectacle-- destruction in the service of capital.

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 Post subject: Re: RedMarx official TSM approved Post-Punk thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:13 am 
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S.Artesian wrote:
Wasn't so bad when I was there-- it was my college days-- prior to age 17 I was in Chicago. So we're talking 1965-1969. Peak Motown years. League of Revolutionary Black Workers; Motor City Labor League; Aretha-- whose father Carl ran the New Bethel Baptist Church where black liberation group-- think it was RNA-- shot it out with the police, and won.

Great music. Good drugs. Period when if you could dance you could get a date with an awfully fine soul sister. Philly Dog, Boogaloo, Shing-a-Ling, learned them all.

Quite liked Lipstick Traces, don't really dislike the Situationists. Just think they take themselves way too seriously at times. Collaborated with couple of the "first" US situationists, I guess, Bruce Elwell and Robert Chasse.

Glad to have been there then. After 1973-- well the bourgeoisie figure they could easily outdo what black people did in 1967, as far as destruction goes. No doubt about it. Bourgeoisie's greatest talent is for destruction, which, BTW is the essence of the spectacle-- destruction in the service of capital.


Oh, I didn't mean to say anything about Detroit in the late 60s, beyond the fact that I would have probably been strung up for a date given the dancing requirement.

The collaboration with the American situationists sounds pretty interesting, particularly to myself. You can actually use the term correctly in the context too, which is amusing, as, well, they were technically members of the SI. Well, for a bit at least, Debord threw them out after a few months and they only released one issue of their journal, most of the content just recapping SI content written on may. Shot in the dark, but did you do anything with them around 69-71? Either way, I'd be intrigued to hear more about it, of course.

Point on the destructive capacity of the spectacle is spot on, yeah. It's quite the thorough process too, as you invariably have it so the cultural productions in question are not only destroyed, but recuperated into the spectacle itself as yet another incoherent facet of its amorphous decomposition.

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 Post subject: Re: RedMarx official TSM approved Post-Punk thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:38 am 
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Yeah well, I did "something" around 1969-1971 but it wasn't in collaboration with Situationists. Anyway, Elwell wrote a good leaflet about the "looting" during the 1977 power blackout in NYC.

Last sentence... gentle reminder, I think I know what you're talking about "recuperated as yet another incoherent facet of its amorphous decomposition"-- but damn, the way it's phrased, the way the words keep elbowing each other for position, kind of brings discussion and practical application to an impasse. I understand why the Situationists used comics/cartoons-- great dynamic tension in two-dimensional "action" characters-- illustrating what the balloons coming out of their mouths were saying; but without the graphics the language can be suffocating. At least in my personal opinion........

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 Post subject: Re: RedMarx official TSM approved Post-Punk thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:16 pm 
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S.Artesian wrote:
Last sentence... gentle reminder, I think I know what you're talking about "recuperated as yet another incoherent facet of its amorphous decomposition"-- but damn, the way it's phrased, the way the words keep elbowing each other for position, kind of brings discussion and practical application to an impasse.


Yeah, fair enough, there was probably some overkill there.

Anyway, post punk.


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 Post subject: Re: RedMarx official TSM approved Post-Punk thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:58 pm 
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I discovered post-punk kinda recently, and I'm hooked. I love Gang of Four, Joy Division, Bauhaus (only listened to "In the flat field" thus far), plus some norwegian post-punk bands that are absolutely great.
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 Post subject: Re: RedMarx official TSM approved Post-Punk thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Regarding norwegian post-punk:

Kjøtt ("Meat"):







The Aller Værste ("The very worst"), although they're so influenced by ska that they're probably more ska. When it comes to lyrics they're thematically like the Norwegian Gang of Four. One of my absolute favorite bands of all times and genres:







Program 81/82:







Among many others that I have forgotten to add or have yet to discover


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