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 Post subject: Topics to archive.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:06 pm 
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As Arty outlined in the first look at first principles topic (first-look-at-first-principles-t224.html), we do not intend to beat a dead horse. As such, this topic will serve as a place to suggest either topics to be discussed and thereafter archived in an as of yet non-existent archived topics sub-forum, or topics that have already been thoroughly discussed/beat that should be archived.

However, we're not simply going to archive the topic in which the position is developed, we need someone to peruse the thread and present the topic in a coherent and unified manner. Once said topic has been presented, critiques can be made, revisions carried out until it reaches an acceptable state at which point the new topic with the official position will be created and archived with links at the end of the post to the original topic(s) that inspired the archived topic as well as all discussion involving the creation of the archived topic.

This process is absolutely subject to change if someone suggests better idea(s)/I realize the current iteration is lacking.

For now, I think the topic on The Party has been thoroughly explored and I'll try to create an archive-able topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Topics to archive.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:37 pm 
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OK -- let me take a stab at this:

Marx states that relative surplus value can only be amplified by reducing the value of the necessities making up the wage, and thus reducing the value of the wage itself in the reproduction of capital.

He makes it a point to demonstrate that mere reductions in prices of commodities through the applications of more efficient processes, or greater applications of constant capital, do not create additional surplus value, but distribute the same portion of new value over a greater number of use values. "Productivity of labor" as such is, in this instance, defined by Marx as greater output of use values, and does not enhance the aggrandizement of surplus value.

But having argued that, Marx seems to have forgotten this and goes on (in the Economic Manuscripts, in TSV, in the Grundrisse) to talk about societies that have moved to the point where relative surplus value is the dominant mode of expropriation, and he equates that dominant mode, that transformation to the real subsumption of labor by capital with the extraction of relative surplus value through the application of machinery to the production process.

How are we to reconcile this apparent/real conflict? If machinery cannot impact accelerate the extraction of relative surplus value unless it reduces the value of the wage, how are we to account for Marx's real subsumption of labor; how are we to account for situations where rates of surplus value increase and the value of necessities do not fall; the wages do not fall?

If machinery does increase the extraction of relative surplus value in its enhancement of "general" social productivity, how are we to calculate that relation based on the value composition itself-- which I think we should be able to.

And just to anticipate a response, a response that opens another hugely ambiguous term Marx uses; if someone wants to argue that the application of machinery raises the intensity of labor above the norm, thus leading to greater value produced in less or the same time-- how is that even possible? If time is the measure of value, how do we even measure intensity as something different, as something average? If time is the measure of value, how can intensity lead to greater value in the same time period?


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 Post subject: Re: Topics to archive.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:59 pm 
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If you don't mind Arty, I'm going to make you a new topic in Theory for your post and move this one over there while also leaving it here.

I was hoping to use this topic simply as a

"I think we need an archive topic on the falling rate of profit"

"Okay, I'll go work on that"

kind of thread.

Edit: Looks like that's harder than I thought

I'd appreciate it if discussion was directed in the new thread here.

ambiguities-in-surplus-value-t1309.html

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