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 Post subject: Re: Here at last
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:58 pm 
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What is your username on revleft?

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"There is no trace of utopianism in Marx, in the sense that he invented or imagined a 'new society.' No, he studied the birth of the new society from the old, the forms of transition from the latter to the former as a natural historical process. He examined the actual experience of the mass proletarian movement and tried to draw practical lessons from it. He 'learned' from the Commune, like all the great revolutionary thinkers who were not afraid to learn from the experience of the great movements of the oppressed classes, and who never preached pedantic 'sermons.'"- Lenin


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 Post subject: Re: Here at last
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:52 am 
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Welcome comrade. We joined at just about the same time. I am, as you probably know, a refugee from RL. Seems this forum is not really friendly to Trotskyists. I say that's fine, as long as they don't get all dictatorial like the bozos at RL.


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 Post subject: Re: Here at last
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:50 pm 
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What is your problem, comrade? Why the veiled, or not so veiled threats?


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 Post subject: Re: Here at last
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Lev Bronsteinovich wrote:
Seems this forum is not really friendly to Trotskyists. I say that's fine, as long as they don't get all dictatorial like the bozos at RL.


I'm just going to finish my coffee and wait for this to actually sink in.

Trotskyist, dictatorial, it should stay hot for the wait.

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 Post subject: Re: Here at last
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:19 pm 
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thesadmafioso wrote:
Lev Bronsteinovich wrote:
Seems this forum is not really friendly to Trotskyists. I say that's fine, as long as they don't get all dictatorial like the bozos at RL.


I'm just going to finish my coffee and wait for this to actually sink in.

Trotskyist, dictatorial, it should stay hot for the wait.

Indeed. It's always best to finish one's coffee. And maybe have another.


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 Post subject: Re: Here at last
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:33 pm 
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Lev Bronsteinovich wrote:
Welcome comrade. We joined at just about the same time. I am, as you probably know, a refugee from RL. Seems this forum is not really friendly to Trotskyists. I say that's fine, as long as they don't get all dictatorial like the bozos at RL.



What's the matter. Afraid that a dose of "red terror" might be coming your way?

TSM has it right again-- Trotskyist? dictatorial? Hilarious.

Booting you out of here would be the exercise of proletarian democracy in its highest form.

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 Post subject: Re: Here at last
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:29 pm 
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S.Artesian wrote:
Lev Bronsteinovich wrote:
Welcome comrade. We joined at just about the same time. I am, as you probably know, a refugee from RL. Seems this forum is not really friendly to Trotskyists. I say that's fine, as long as they don't get all dictatorial like the bozos at RL.



What's the matter. Afraid that a dose of "red terror" might be coming your way?

TSM has it right again-- Trotskyist? dictatorial? Hilarious.

Booting you out of here would be the exercise of proletarian democracy in its highest form.


Then you are addled, comrade. Or, perhaps, your sense of humor has been finely honed in a very odd corner of a rather strange universe. That you find the words "Trotsky" and "dictatorial" hilarious especially in the above context strikes me as plenty weird. And if by "exercise of proletarian democracy," you mean bureaucratic fiat or immature petulance then you are right on the money.


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 Post subject: Re: Here at last
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:35 am 
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Proud to be addled

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 Post subject: Re: Here at last
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Lev Bronsteinovich wrote:
S.Artesian wrote:
Lev Bronsteinovich wrote:
Welcome comrade. We joined at just about the same time. I am, as you probably know, a refugee from RL. Seems this forum is not really friendly to Trotskyists. I say that's fine, as long as they don't get all dictatorial like the bozos at RL.



What's the matter. Afraid that a dose of "red terror" might be coming your way?

TSM has it right again-- Trotskyist? dictatorial? Hilarious.

Booting you out of here would be the exercise of proletarian democracy in its highest form.


Then you are addled, comrade. Or, perhaps, your sense of humor has been finely honed in a very odd corner of a rather strange universe. That you find the words "Trotsky" and "dictatorial" hilarious especially in the above context strikes me as plenty weird. And if by "exercise of proletarian democracy," you mean bureaucratic fiat or immature petulance then you are right on the money.


What do you think of that one time when Trotsky wanted to 'militarize' labor, keeping conscripts from the Red Army in the military well past the civil war simply to work. Or how about his defenses of every overture towards centralization in the party/state/social apparatuses of the Soviet Union? Overseeing the purges of the Left SRs, turning the state into more or less a permanent entity of soviet capitalism complete with plans for mass industrialization organized along purely bourgeois methods of production (foremen/workers, fordism, etc), advocating for an outright return to bourgeois and feudalistic models of cultural production simply because the workers weren't 'advanced' enough to read Mayakovsky or take anything from Malevich? None of this strikes you as dictatorial at all then?

I'm tempted to say we might need to enter into a brief conversation in semantics, which is to say, what exactly does your definition of dictatorship actually amount to? Sitting here, it looks pretty well hollowed out.

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