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 Post subject: Re: Insurgent Notes Meeting; Live and Probably from New York
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:19 am 
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God damn he rakes them over the coals.

Can't say I disagree much with him. Wonder what he'd think of our efforts at actually doing something.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurgent Notes Meeting; Live and Probably from New York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:15 am 
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The personal attacks in the IN comment are a bit too hyperbolic. It reads as though the author thinks there are other people who are somehow more responsible for building a revolutionary organization, and as Bro says, 'raking them over the coals' (great way to put it) is to change this how? Granted it's a pretty common frustration in the current environment and in a general sense, but the question for the author is: what are you (we) going to do about the lack of revolutionary organization?

I still think the theoretical terrain is where to take up that particular fight. There's a reason left communists don't resemble Trotskyists* or any other differentiated sect/tendency/whathaveyou: there are theories upon which such practice is based, and starting from those theories characteristic of left communism, there is no basis upon which to intervene in the class struggle on a durable and broad/diversified basis.

*Not as it pertains to practical activity...


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 Post subject: Re: Insurgent Notes Meeting; Live and Probably from New York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:29 am 
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Clearly, the writer has a personal ax to grind with Goldner. I consider a Goldner a friend, and yes, the criticism is personal and harsh. However, there is certainly a validity to the criticism of the conference.

You hold a conference on "what next." And then you produce a "summary" of the conference that says, "we don't know"???? But..."make no mistake, we are about changing the world." ??????????

I mean WTF?? As Ripley put it so pointedly in Aliens "Did IQs drop sharply while I was away?"

If you don't know what next then WTF are you doing calling a conference?

EDIT: And yes, the personal criticism is hyperbolic, and inaccurate in several areas.


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 Post subject: Re: Insurgent Notes Meeting; Live and Probably from New York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:14 pm 
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Quote:
I think the frustration the author of the attack wrote isn't meant to be productive, but is meant to be tapped by those who are being productive. Interestingly I tried to do that by directing him to my article on Do Something, but it has not been approved by moderation yet on IN. I posted that comment immediately after reacting to the comment here, meanwhile Arty's conversation and other comments that are much longer have been approved.


Yeah, well I talked to Loren and the stumbling block is that you said something to the effect that "This is a good critique of IN...see.............at Anti-Capital." I think IN regards it as an attempt to "self-promote" at their expense.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurgent Notes Meeting; Live and Probably from New York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:18 pm 
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[quote="Broletariat"]God damn he rakes them over the coals.

Can't say I disagree much with him. Wonder what he'd think of our efforts at actually doing something.


Learned the guy is someone with a real personal ax and pretty much a jerk. I think the critique of the conference is one thing. I think the personal attacks are something else and pretty much ********.

Think, all in all, he's someone to avoid

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 Post subject: Re: Insurgent Notes Meeting; Live and Probably from New York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:46 pm 
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Actually, thinking about this.......I think Michael is right


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 Post subject: Re: Insurgent Notes Meeting; Live and Probably from New York
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:10 am 
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Just to see if I'm following.

As Bordiga said, at the heart of every tactical error lies a theoretical error. We're saying that the tactical error of left communism is not intervening in the class-struggle and that this is rooted in a theoretical error no?

Thus we can't be like Chevalier getting upset that left communists don't intervene in the class struggle, but should be upset that they are left communists at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurgent Notes Meeting; Live and Probably from New York
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:55 pm 
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That's about where I'm at with it Bro. During a strike at a unionized workplace (like the big oil workers' strike in the US in 2015), if the tactic for intervention is to deploy members to distribute communist leaflets or communist press (newspapers, journals, etc.) that argue for workers to tear up their union cards, organize general assemblies to run the strike, send delegates to other nearby workplaces to fraternize, agitate and try to bring them out on strike too, etc., a successful intervention is one where members of the organization do show up and do distribute material and do make contact with the strikers, whether the workers actually do any of these things or not.

This makes sense if the theoretical basis for communist intervention is outside and against the trade unions, that the workers' leaders and organization are agents of the capitalist state, etc. But if that theoretical framework is flawed, etc.

I think the measure of a theoretical framework/arsenal is whether it potentially helps or hinders the greater organization of the class, escalation of its struggles and expansion of the revolutionary movement in all spheres.

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I think the critique of the conference is one thing. I think the personal attacks are something else and pretty much ********.


since the former seems like a cover for the latter, I think the baby most definitely goes out with the bathwater in that instance


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 Post subject: Re: Insurgent Notes Meeting; Live and Probably from New York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:19 pm 
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I believe my comments, 'The Recent Insurgent Notes Conference in New York' are what are being refered to ingenously here as "personal attacks." The question of an individual's proven real world political credibility or long-term lack of this is not a "personal attack" -- except among the easily bruised whose opposition to this social order is exclusively expressed on internet chit-chat boards.

In his response to this on the Insurgent Notes web page. S. Artesian demonstrated that all substantive points I made here sailed over the top f his head.


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 Post subject: Re: Insurgent Notes Meeting; Live and Probably from New York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:26 pm 
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Post-script: I didn't name the individual who was the focus of my most caustic comments; it's telling that all of you seem to know who I was referring to...


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