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 Post subject: Re: Everything sucks
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Re: socialness, the division of private and public realms has generally allotted males the latter, and relative to his wife it is the husband who stands as a representative of the social world as a whole. Even a 'rugged, competitive individualism' merely designates a different kind of society, one in which the social still dominates over the individual - indeed, there are few things as irremediably social as competition. Conversely, the Greeks were generally associated with a more communal conception of the state than capital, but relegated females to a very much subordinate role. It's just as possible for somebody used to an unconditional, familial affection to be isolated in a competitive society based on 'proving oneself,' display for others, etc., as for the opposite to happen in some form. It's not entirely clear that your categorisation here is based on much more than a vague taking up of stereotypes.

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 Post subject: Re: Everything sucks
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Quote:
But I'm just trying to engage you and others in a conversation here. Why did several radical (and less radical) thinkers argue that emasculation of society would be good? Do today's signs of increased emasculation point toward a positive development, or do conservatives have point e.g. that it brings an extra burden on women (besides having to do household, also work)? Feel free to bring up your thoughts.


First question: who regard Aragon, Cleaver, Solanis, etc etc as "radical thinkers"-- ?

Second question: what is the real content of their "radical thinking"--?

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 Post subject: Re: Everything sucks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:31 am 
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I don't have access to Cleaver's article (included in Play power: exploring the international underground). I can say about Solanas that her manifesto calls "to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation and destroy the male ***." I don't think there's more detailed elaboration in her later writings (and whatever she wrote was destroyed upon her death). You yourself brought up Marcuse. As for Aragon, well tbh I was just basing myself on the song adaption by Ferrat of his poem. I guess his sentiment was a bit liberal-humanist defense of women, not really radical and quite a compatible sentiment with Stalinism, but a noble feeling nonetheless. Roger Garaudy's book again is not available to me. It was written somewhere in between his trajectory from disgruntled Stalinist into Islamic anti-imperialism (radical right if you will).

At first sight the content of the SCUM manifesto by Solanas sounds crazy (some say it's a parody inverting the male stereotypes). But she's definitely on the radical left. Should her call to eliminate men then not be taking serious, perhaps she's right after all. Automation does render traditionally male work superfluous. Doesn't the idea of full automation of a communist society fill many men with dread (rightfully so?).

http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

There is no human reason for money or for anyone to work more than two or three hours a week at the very most. All non-creative jobs (practically all jobs now being done) could have been automated long ago, and in a moneyless society everyone can have as much of the best of everything as she wants. But there are non-human, male reasons for wanting to maintain the money system:

1. ... females, unless very young or very sick, must be coerced or bribed into male company.

2. Supply the non-relating male with the delusion of usefulness, and enable him to try to justify his existence by digging holes and then filling them up. Leisure time horrifies the male, who will have nothing to do but contemplate his grotesque self. ...

3. Power and control. Unmasterful in his personal relations with women, the male attains to masterfulness by the manipulation of money and everything controlled by money, in other words, of everything and everybody.

4. Love substitute. Unable to give love or affection, the male gives money. It makes him feel motherly. The mother gives milk; he gives bread. He is the Breadwinner.

5. Provide the male with a goal. Incapable of enjoying the moment, the male needs something to look forward to, and money provides him with an eternal, never-ending goal: Just think of what you could do with 80 trillion dollars -- invest it! And in three years time you'd have 300 trillion dollars!!!

6. Provide the basis for the male's major opportunity to control and manipulate -- fatherhood.


She adds politics, science and arts as other male escapes from their worthless selves, to which I can add Marxism. Isn't all this organizing and marxist theoretical work we do just to give the impression of being worth something (like to impress the ladies).


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 Post subject: Re: Everything sucks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Noa wrote:
...

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 Post subject: Re: Everything sucks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:58 pm 
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*****-power (which Cleaver probably took up from Solanas) is being taking very serious by the ICC and CPGB (inviting Christ Knight and other anthropologists of the *** strike theory). Breivik wrote about feminisation as well (although in a negative sense obviously).

http://www.breiviksmanifesto.com/radica ... orrectness

If this “feminisation” trend were driven only by radical feminists seeking to pull down a perceived male-dominated hierarchy, there would be more hope that the cycles of history would move Europe toward a stable accommodation between men and women. But the drive is deeper, and it will not be satisfied by any accommodation. The radical feminists have embraced and been embraced by the wider and deeper movement of cultural Marxism. For dedicated Marxists, the strategy is to attack at every point where an apparent disparity leaves a potential constituency of “oppressed” victim groups – Muslims, women etc. Cultural Marxists, men and women, are making the most of it, and the theory developed by the Frankfurt School provides the ideology.

The Frankfurt School theorised that the authoritarian personality is a product of the patriarchal family. This idea is in turn directly connected to Engels’s The Origins of the Family, Private Property and the State, which promotes matriarchy.
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 Post subject: Re: Everything sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:18 pm 
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I think the SCUM manifesto is interesting and I found a comparison of Breivik to Solanas here; http://punctumbooks.com/titles/continent-year-1/ (article on p. 81-98).

To repeat, I'm just trying to engage you and others in a conversation here. Feel free to bring up your thoughts.

By the way, did you know that Andrej Pejic is a marxist (he links to WSWS and quotes Luxemburg)?

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 Post subject: Re: Everything sucks
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:03 am 
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As if on cue, a book appears by Jean-Paul Martinon

http://punctumbooks.com/titles/the-end-of-man/

edit;

meh, postmodern BS

This on the other hand; http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... en/308135/

Earlier this year [2010], women became the majority of the workforce for the first time in U.S. history. Most managers are now women too. And for every two men who get a college degree this year, three women will do the same.

...
In the 1970s the biologist Ronald Ericsson came up with a way to separate sperm carrying the male-producing Y chromosome from those carrying the X.
..
In the ’90s, when Ericsson looked into the numbers for the two dozen or so clinics that use his process, he discovered, to his surprise, that couples were requesting more girls than boys, a gap that has persisted, even though Ericsson advertises the method as more effective for producing boys. In some clinics, Ericsson has said, the ratio is now as high as 2 to 1.
...

Even more unsettling for Ericsson, it has become clear that in choosing the *** of the next generation, he is no longer the boss. “It’s the women who are driving all the decisions,” he says
..
What if the modern, postindustrial economy is simply more congenial to women than to men?

..
More to the point, what if the economics of the new era are better suited to women?

Once you open your eyes to this possibility, the evidence is all around you. It can be found, most immediately, in the wreckage of the Great Recession, in which three-quarters of the 8 million jobs lost were lost by men. The worst-hit industries were overwhelmingly male and deeply identified with macho: construction, manufacturing, high finance. Some of these jobs will come back, but the overall pattern of dislocation is neither temporary nor random. The recession merely revealed—and accelerated—a profound economic shift that has been going on for at least 30 years, and in some respects even longer.


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 Post subject: Re: Everything sucks
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:36 am 
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i like my new avatar what about you noa

its about being manly and lifting weights awww yea

do u lift weights noa?

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 Post subject: Re: Everything sucks
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:21 am 
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I assume you are the admin who posted using my account, to ask to change my nick into 'cop'. And by asking me about how manly your avatar is, you cast the aspersion that I'm a misogynous advocate of ultra manhood. Hanna Rosin expanded the story about the end of men into a book, which appeared last fall and made a big splash in the media. I didn't hear of it until now, but it fully confirms what I've been mentioning here. I watched her on Aljazeera and I noticed the same kind of unbalanced attacks she gets as me (and let's remember that the most radical feminist, Solanas, originally made this contention about disappearing male).


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 Post subject: Re: Everything sucks
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:47 am 
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nah that wasn't me, it was tfm he's a real **** (or should I say ******/****?) making him an admin was the worst move this site ever made.

and no i srsly lift, do you even lift? I can post vids, and have posting vids of myself squatting several hundred pounds or deadlifting several hundred pounds

why dont u lift noa aren't u a real man, go read jim wendler's 5/3/1 and get back to me after you're north of vag son

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