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 Post subject: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:03 pm 
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I mean who wouldn't? Self-sufficiency is nice, you don't have to rely on any of the inhabitants of the city. Don't get me wrong, you like some of your fellow men, you even let them stop by your farm from time to time, but it sure is nice to be able to shoot trespassers on sight if you don't want them around. Life in the city had its benefits, but you can still stop by the city from time to time if you like. Trouble is, not everyone likes stopping by the city, and they all moved on and got their own farm too. People just visiting the country used to be able to stop by the city and interact with everyone and contribute productivity in this way, but now with everyone scattered on farms you have to visit many different farms to achieve something resembling a similar effect.

Imagine if Michael Roberts, S. Artesian, Brian Green, Brendan Mccooney, Andrew Kliman, and other prominent bloggers simply stopped blogging.

On the front page of their blog they point out that they've decided to move all future posts to an appropriate subforum of RedMarx.

Do you or do you not think that this would be a step forward for Marxist discussion?

Why have a blog in the first place? I don't have a blog I don't know. Is it to have something that is your 'own' to have a space that you have some 'control' over? I'd be more than willing to offer admin positions to such like folk if it would mean reviving the dead Marxist internet presence, or straight up move over to whatever other forum they decide to populate.

Why make a blog post instead of a forum topic? Are you afraid of discussion, obviously not. Are you concerned that RedMarx isn't popular enough to reach the audience you want to reach? If not why not direct your current readership as instructed above. Or is RedMarx simply NOT the place to have Marxist discussions? If that's the case what is the point of keeping RedMarx up? That's a genuine question.

Would it be worth trying to get as many prominent Marxist bloggers as possible to simply stop blogging for a single week, with a redirect to RedMarx or a new forum of their creating and post anything they would post as a blog post as a forum topic?

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:55 pm 
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OK, I'm willing to give it a shot; but I think, comrade, you must first admit that this platform was allowed to go dead for a little bit over a year, or was it 2 years?

So I'll do what I did when I was working with Insurgent Notes-- I'll put the first paragraph up on the TWR with a link to RedMarx where the reader will find the complete article.

Then I'll all the contacts know in the usual way. We'll see what happens.
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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:06 pm 
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sartesian wrote:
OK, I'm willing to give it a shot; but I think, comrade, you must first admit that this platform was allowed to go dead for a little bit over a year, or was it 2 years?

So I'll do what I did when I was working with Insurgent Notes-- I'll put the first paragraph up on the TWR with a link to RedMarx where the reader will find the complete article.

Then I'll all the contacts know in the usual way. We'll see what happens.


It absolutely was allowed to go dead, and I largely blame the culture that I allowed to permeate and perpetuate here and notably on the little chat thing.

I think it may be a good idea to discuss if this is even a good or desirable goal to work towards for all parties involved. RedMarx has baggage, I know that. Is THIS the best place to 'move' to? In the current form is it the best place to move to? Is right now the best time to do this? Are people willing to contribute unconditionally? With conditions that can be met? Under no circumstances with what reasons? etc.

I think it may be more impactful if everyone who winds up willing to redirect to RedMarx does so roughly simultaneously rather than it happening one at a time.

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:11 pm 
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I have no idea if your idea will work. And I have no reason not to give it a try.......so it's your call. I can start. Or we can wait for others to sign on.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:23 pm 
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I say we just go to CE.

On a more serious note:

I normally find myself just going straight to those bloggers anyway, but I think community building is something the left really needs right now both in the real world and in our little internet dens.

I have my doubts about how effective this will be, as the forum format is a bit... well I dunno. But if we have good discussion I say it could be worth it. I think building a collective that produces content could also be worthwhile, so the discussion can permeate other sections of the internet and we can bring more people to our "city" maybe. Obviously we aren't looking to appeal to the lowest common denominator as that's what the rest of the internet is for, but if let's say we got someone who could write really well, paired with someone willing to read those posts or summarize them to be more suitable for video/podcast that could help spark conversation as well that we could direct to this forum. Or I suppose in effect the articles being written would serve that purpose as well, but I'm just brain storming at the moment.

Of course we need people here first, but I know there are tech shows that have a similar format. Weekly show with a forum where community members are invited to start discussions and also respond to the videos in an environment that isn't a cancerous youtube comments section.

That's just an idea I've been toying around with in general anyway, as I think more marxist commentary floating around on the internet would be a good thing.

Regardless, building a community first to have discussions with would perhaps be first priority. I'm on and off again, but I'll invite some buddies that could be interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:22 am 
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sartesian wrote:
I have no idea if your idea will work. And I have no reason not to give it a try.......so it's your call. I can start. Or we can wait for others to sign on.


I'm more asking the question of if it should even be done. I think my most central question is. ARE blogs harmful to Marxist discussion? To me it seems like I can go here and there and digest my little piece of whoever's opinion I want. But the forum format is more directly engaging. It doesn't put the blogger in any special position inherently that makes all other readers simply readers rather than contributors. The forum gives the viewer the chance and opportunity to become more than just a reader, but a participant, and their participation may encourage others to participate as well. These folks need not be on the same 'level' as some of the more serious bloggers, but their participation and engagement is still valuable and may encourage those who are also not on the same 'level' to further discuss with the first group of people not on the same 'level.'

If that's the case I am directly posing the question if a blog is worth keeping at all. I know blogs have this or that use, but should the main way we present our online presence be in the form of many multiple isolated blogs all with links to one other sending the unacquainted reader from post to pole? It would be as if everyone in real life stopped attending any in-person discussions and simply published pamphlets or fliers of various quality with the occasional response to the pamphlet or flier. Pamphlets and fliers absolutely have their use, but right now that feels like all we have.

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:25 am 
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ScientificSocialist wrote:
I say we just go to CE.

On a more serious note:

I normally find myself just going straight to those bloggers anyway, but I think community building is something the left really needs right now both in the real world and in our little internet dens.

I have my doubts about how effective this will be, as the forum format is a bit... well I dunno. But if we have good discussion I say it could be worth it. I think building a collective that produces content could also be worthwhile, so the discussion can permeate other sections of the internet and we can bring more people to our "city" maybe. Obviously we aren't looking to appeal to the lowest common denominator as that's what the rest of the internet is for, but if let's say we got someone who could write really well, paired with someone willing to read those posts or summarize them to be more suitable for video/podcast that could help spark conversation as well that we could direct to this forum. Or I suppose in effect the articles being written would serve that purpose as well, but I'm just brain storming at the moment.

Of course we need people here first, but I know there are tech shows that have a similar format. Weekly show with a forum where community members are invited to start discussions and also respond to the videos in an environment that isn't a cancerous youtube comments section.

That's just an idea I've been toying around with in general anyway, as I think more marxist commentary floating around on the internet would be a good thing.

Regardless, building a community first to have discussions with would perhaps be first priority. I'm on and off again, but I'll invite some buddies that could be interested.


I think an interesting trend online is that the forum format has basically been superceded by social media and reddit which is basically the same thing. Having a real discussion online is next to impossible on a format such as reddit or facebook.

I like what you're saying about producing content collectively then publishing it in a different format with a redirect to RedMarx. I was in the works of doing such with the Capital Comics, which will be resumed and completed.

And again, unless your buddies would intend to stick around to the forum regardless of its activity, I might not invite them until we get this thing started so they don't 'burnout' on us.

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:20 am 
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Broletariat wrote:
sartesian wrote:
I have no idea if your idea will work. And I have no reason not to give it a try.......so it's your call. I can start. Or we can wait for others to sign on.


I'm more asking the question of if it should even be done. I think my most central question is. ARE blogs harmful to Marxist discussion? To me it seems like I can go here and there and digest my little piece of whoever's opinion I want. But the forum format is more directly engaging. It doesn't put the blogger in any special position inherently that makes all other readers simply readers rather than contributors. The forum gives the viewer the chance and opportunity to become more than just a reader, but a participant, and their participation may encourage others to participate as well. These folks need not be on the same 'level' as some of the more serious bloggers, but their participation and engagement is still valuable and may encourage those who are also not on the same 'level' to further discuss with the first group of people not on the same 'level.'

If that's the case I am directly posing the question if a blog is worth keeping at all. I know blogs have this or that use, but should the main way we present our online presence be in the form of many multiple isolated blogs all with links to one other sending the unacquainted reader from post to pole? It would be as if everyone in real life stopped attending any in-person discussions and simply published pamphlets or fliers of various quality with the occasional response to the pamphlet or flier. Pamphlets and fliers absolutely have their use, but right now that feels like all we have.


Very interesting question: reproduce the fragmentation and atomization in the very process of the critique. Needs a bit of thought.

OTOH, what if you're someone like me, who gets thrown out of every party, organization, forum you've ever participated in?


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:57 pm 
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sartesian wrote:
Broletariat wrote:
sartesian wrote:
I have no idea if your idea will work. And I have no reason not to give it a try.......so it's your call. I can start. Or we can wait for others to sign on.


I'm more asking the question of if it should even be done. I think my most central question is. ARE blogs harmful to Marxist discussion? To me it seems like I can go here and there and digest my little piece of whoever's opinion I want. But the forum format is more directly engaging. It doesn't put the blogger in any special position inherently that makes all other readers simply readers rather than contributors. The forum gives the viewer the chance and opportunity to become more than just a reader, but a participant, and their participation may encourage others to participate as well. These folks need not be on the same 'level' as some of the more serious bloggers, but their participation and engagement is still valuable and may encourage those who are also not on the same 'level' to further discuss with the first group of people not on the same 'level.'

If that's the case I am directly posing the question if a blog is worth keeping at all. I know blogs have this or that use, but should the main way we present our online presence be in the form of many multiple isolated blogs all with links to one other sending the unacquainted reader from post to pole? It would be as if everyone in real life stopped attending any in-person discussions and simply published pamphlets or fliers of various quality with the occasional response to the pamphlet or flier. Pamphlets and fliers absolutely have their use, but right now that feels like all we have.


Very interesting question: reproduce the fragmentation and atomization in the very process of the critique. Needs a bit of thought.

OTOH, what if you're someone like me, who gets thrown out of every party, organization, forum you've ever participated in?


It's a classic question of how the form shapes the content I think. The blog form is an isolated expression, you're basically hammering up a pamphlet/flier in some random area and hoping people stop by to read it. Maybe they do, maybe they really like it and stop by the post you've erected to pin fliers to and make frequent visits, but what really comes of that ultimately?

The forum form is more collectively based and has all the associated issues and benefits with that. I think RedMarx has a solid enough foundation (being run by some kid who works in what is essentially a factory job) that you won't see the types of issues you found on Revleft or other forums.

Like I've already offered to you Arty, you have some assurance of security here at RedMarx, and even if you do get banned, you can always move back to the farm no?

On the note of banning, I'm pretty sure the only reason(s) we should ban people is for holding objectively anti-working class positions or consistently proving to be a hindrance to discussion ala Rosa Lichtenstein. The latter is of course much more ambiguous but I suppose that's something to discuss as it occurs.

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:07 pm 
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As far as moving forward with the project is concerned.

I think constructing a list of prominent bloggers to contact is first and foremost. Anyone you have some personal sway with Arty you could handle if you don't mind, and I'll contact anyone else unless you think you'd be a better salesman than me on this.

What I want to know from them is if they agree that an online Marxist discussion group is a valuable thing to strive for, and if they agree that blogging to some degree or another hurts this. From there I'd be interested to know if they would agree to 'move' here unconditionally, with some conditions or expectations from me/RedMarx, or under no circumstance and why. Ideally I would like them to register here and actually post in this thread their thoughts and opinions about this. Actually engaging with them in the collective format I'm proposing rather than in the relatively isolated e-mail format (though you might know them irl arty I'd just be shooting e-mails.)

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