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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:27 pm 
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Quote:
What I want to know from them is if they agree that an online Marxist discussion group is a valuable thing to strive for, and if they agree that blogging to some degree or another hurts this. From there I'd be interested to know if they would agree to 'move' here unconditionally, with some conditions or expectations from me/RedMarx, or under no circumstance and why. Ideally I would like them to register here and actually post in this thread their thoughts and opinions about this. Actually engaging with them in the collective format I'm proposing rather than in the relatively isolated e-mail format (though you might know them irl arty I'd just be shooting e-mails.)


EDIT after reading the above quote: I think having people move here unconditionally is a bit presumptive, and fairly unlikely given that they have established readership that they probably would like to keep. Rather than risk losing people in the transition and come off as super imposing by telling bloggers to quit blogging, I think perhaps a more effective method of redirecting people here would be to allow these bloggers to maintain their current format, but encourage them to redirect discussion to our forum at the end of their entries while also creating accounts here and link their blog posts here. That way people aren't thrown off that the blogs they read are no longer being updated, but the discussion would also happen here if we link back and forth between the articles and the forums. We could certainly encourage them to move their existing comments sections to the discussions on the forums though.

One of my buddies had this to say about the forum format:
Quote:
"I haven't yet been in the habit of devoting myself to forums but I'll check it out. Here's an idea that popped into my head (take it for what you will): I personally thrive on real-time discussion: What do you think of the idea of eventually hosting a live group discussion [yes with speaking] online around a particular article, event, book, theoretical concept, etc? It would be kind of like a conference call for Marxists"


I think it's an interesting idea, and I raised my own concerns with him. Perhaps that sort of format can really only work effectively in person. For privacy reasons I would certainly recommend that it takes place over P2P based services, or at least a service that can be hosted by one of our own so that our conversations aren't stored on Skype's servers or facebook, etc. However, maybe that's something we could start, a live chat between marxists about a topic for the week that could take place for an hour or so. Given the size of the readership here at redmarx I think this could actually be possible, but the main issue is coordination across multiple time zones, work, etc.

Either way, Brole if you wanna get together and start collaborating on some content I would be more than willing to get the ball rolling. I have some articles that I wrote for an online publication that has yet to become active that we could work with and expand on, and I have a microphone so I could do audio, and I could try video production as well. One potential issue is that now I will be working soon, so my freetime will be limited, but we could give it a shot and redirect people to the forums while starting some discussion. Anyone else who would like to contribute should feel free. If we want to set up a specific topic, subforum etc to do that that's one way we could do it, or some of us could come up with some content privately, post it to the forum for revision, then finalize production.

Another idea that just occured to me is that starting or joining a wiki would be really useful. There are some great discussions that happen on the forum, however they can quickly become lost over the years and a forum format, while good for discussion, is horrible for quickly searching and studying a topic compared to a wiki. That may be beyond our manpower given that maintaining a wiki requires some commitment, but if anyone knows of a currently existing wiki that we could contribute to we could join "cities" with another community that shares our ideals.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:43 pm 
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ScientificSocialist wrote:
Quote:
What I want to know from them is if they agree that an online Marxist discussion group is a valuable thing to strive for, and if they agree that blogging to some degree or another hurts this. From there I'd be interested to know if they would agree to 'move' here unconditionally, with some conditions or expectations from me/RedMarx, or under no circumstance and why. Ideally I would like them to register here and actually post in this thread their thoughts and opinions about this. Actually engaging with them in the collective format I'm proposing rather than in the relatively isolated e-mail format (though you might know them irl arty I'd just be shooting e-mails.)


EDIT after reading the above quote: I think having people move here unconditionally is a bit presumptive, and fairly unlikely given that they have established readership that they probably would like to keep. Rather than risk losing people in the transition and come off as super imposing by telling bloggers to quit blogging, I think perhaps a more effective method of redirecting people here would be to allow these bloggers to maintain their current format, but encourage them to redirect discussion to our forum at the end of their entries while also creating accounts here and link their blog posts here. That way people aren't thrown off that the blogs they read are no longer being updated, but the discussion would also happen here if we link back and forth between the articles and the forums. We could certainly encourage them to move their existing comments sections to the discussions on the forums though.


Well, the idea isn't that they stop blogging as in creating informative content, but that they stop placing this content on its own island. Having all roads lead to Rome is nice and all, but putting all effort into building Rome would be more direct.

Quote:
One of my buddies had this to say about the forum format:
Quote:
"I haven't yet been in the habit of devoting myself to forums but I'll check it out. Here's an idea that popped into my head (take it for what you will): I personally thrive on real-time discussion: What do you think of the idea of eventually hosting a live group discussion [yes with speaking] online around a particular article, event, book, theoretical concept, etc? It would be kind of like a conference call for Marxists"


I think it's an interesting idea, and I raised my own concerns with him. Perhaps that sort of format can really only work effectively in person. For privacy reasons I would certainly recommend that it takes place over P2P based services, or at least a service that can be hosted by one of our own so that our conversations aren't stored on Skype's servers or facebook, etc. However, maybe that's something we could start, a live chat between marxists about a topic for the week that could take place for an hour or so. Given the size of the readership here at redmarx I think this could actually be possible, but the main issue is coordination across multiple time zones, work, etc.


I think such real-time discussions are fine, but are much more situational and inherently less stable than the forum format. I'm hoping to have a little marxist discussion group started irl with some fellow who will hopefully begin posting here soon.

Quote:
Either way, Brole if you wanna get together and start collaborating on some content I would be more than willing to get the ball rolling. I have some articles that I wrote for an online publication that has yet to become active that we could work with and expand on, and I have a microphone so I could do audio, and I could try video production as well. One potential issue is that now I will be working soon, so my freetime will be limited, but we could give it a shot and redirect people to the forums while starting some discussion. Anyone else who would like to contribute should feel free. If we want to set up a specific topic, subforum etc to do that that's one way we could do it, or some of us could come up with some content privately, post it to the forum for revision, then finalize production.


I think a lot of the 'creative' content such as Capital through Comics or some such is/should primarily be used/directed as educational material meant to ease people into Marxist concepts and thoughts. As such it would make a lot of sense to create that style of content collectively at RedMarx and then spread it more generally to places like the various marxist/communist subreddits with redirects to RedMarx, perhaps with portions of the content left out and only the full content available at RedMarx much as Arty as offered to do with his blog.

Quote:
Another idea that just occured to me is that starting or joining a wiki would be really useful. There are some great discussions that happen on the forum, however they can quickly become lost over the years and a forum format, while good for discussion, is horrible for quickly searching and studying a topic compared to a wiki. That may be beyond our manpower given that maintaining a wiki requires some commitment, but if anyone knows of a currently existing wiki that we could contribute to we could join "cities" with another community that shares our ideals.


One of the original ideas behind RedMarx is to not beat a dead horse completely senseless. We've never reached the point of dead horse beating just yet, but I think we're pretty close with the 'What is meant by The Party?' topic.

I think once we reach such a point, a single topic will be chosen, distilled to its best essence perhaps by a volunteer, written up posted locked and indexed in a new subforum to be archived.

I also think we've started to stray a bit from the simpler idea of centralizing Marxist discussion. I would highly encourage you to post any and all articles you've created/are creating to be commented upon discussed etc. etc. if you like in one of the subforums.

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:57 pm 
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Broletariat wrote:
I think a lot of the 'creative' content such as Capital through Comics or some such is/should primarily be used/directed as educational material meant to ease people into Marxist concepts and thoughts. As such it would make a lot of sense to create that style of content collectively at RedMarx and then spread it more generally to places like the various marxist/communist subreddits with redirects to RedMarx, perhaps with portions of the content left out and only the full content available at RedMarx much as Arty as offered to do with his blog.


That works for me.

Broletariat wrote:
Quote:
Another idea that just occured to me is that starting or joining a wiki would be really useful. There are some great discussions that happen on the forum, however they can quickly become lost over the years and a forum format, while good for discussion, is horrible for quickly searching and studying a topic compared to a wiki. That may be beyond our manpower given that maintaining a wiki requires some commitment, but if anyone knows of a currently existing wiki that we could contribute to we could join "cities" with another community that shares our ideals.


One of the original ideas behind RedMarx is to not beat a dead horse completely senseless. We've never reached the point of dead horse beating just yet, but I think we're pretty close with the 'What is meant by The Party?' topic.

I think once we reach such a point, a single topic will be chosen, distilled to its best essence perhaps by a volunteer, written up posted locked and indexed in a new subforum to be archived.

I also think we've started to stray a bit from the simpler idea of centralizing Marxist discussion. I would highly encourage you to post any and all articles you've created/are creating to be commented upon discussed etc. etc. if you like in one of the subforums.


That would be one way to perhaps have a wiki-like organization of content. Just stick a topic that would act as a table of contents and link to the relevant threads there, which already exists if I'm not mistaken actually. The articles won't be published until our publishing community has enough people for the site I'm working with. That may never happen though so if it doesn't happen relatively soon I may just decide to publish the articles here. In fact, I think I'll post the articles here for community revision actually, that's not a bad idea.

Also I recommend making the style for quotes a little more... apparent. It's hard to tell what's quote and what isn't without looking at it for a long time. Not impossible, but just kind of annoying. The mobile stylesheet actually looks better imo, but yeah. I'd also accept an admin position btw if that's still on the table.

EDIT: Looks like some threads have what I'm talking about in regards to quote formating: http://redmarx.freeforums.org/should-we-repost-interesting-things-from-facebook-t1299-10.html

For me in this thread however it just says "So and so wrote:" and then has it in a block paragraph without any background alterations to indicate that it's a quote.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:46 am 
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^ditto, allowing clear quoting is precisely one of the advantages of forums.

On centralising Marxist internet discussion, I always bring up the OPE-List, which was started in 1995: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/ope/archive/ (now practically become inactive, and moved to Yahoo groups). It seems they had a good run, many topics discussed, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:41 pm 
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Noa wrote:
^ditto, allowing clear quoting is precisely one of the advantages of forums.

On centralising Marxist internet discussion, I always bring up the OPE-List, which was started in 1995: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/ope/archive/ (now practically become inactive, and moved to Yahoo groups). It seems they had a good run, many topics discussed, etc.


I think you guys are using a different style than me, you can customize whichever style you'd like under the user control panel. I'll set my current style to the default since it makes quoting clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:04 pm 
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Alright so the list of bloggers/blogs I've compiled is as follows. I left out Arty becuase he's already here.

https://theplanningmotive.com/
https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/
http://akliman.squarespace.com/
https://critiqueofcrisistheory.wordpress.com/
https://kapitalism101.wordpress.com/
https://rdln.wordpress.com/
http://economicsofimperialism.blogspot.co.uk/
http://100yearsoftrenches.blogspot.co.nz/

Have I missed anybody notable or accidentally picked up anyone with anti-working class positions we wouldn't want here?

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:03 pm 
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Bro,

You have to understand, several of the blogs you sight function a bit as marketing platforms for those who make their livings as "professional Marxists," or "professional Marxist economists."-- Specifically-- the next recession blog of Michael Roberts, and the economics of imperialism blog of Tony Norfield.

So there is a commercial obstacle to getting their participation. As far as I know, these bloggers welcome reproduction of their posts, but again, that's marketing and I don't think we can expect the "professionals" to seriously engage on RedMarx.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:40 pm 
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sartesian wrote:
Bro,

You have to understand, several of the blogs you sight function a bit as marketing platforms for those who make their livings as "professional Marxists," or "professional Marxist economists."-- Specifically-- the next recession blog of Michael Roberts, and the economics of imperialism blog of Tony Norfield.

So there is a commercial obstacle to getting their participation. As far as I know, these bloggers welcome reproduction of their posts, but again, that's marketing and I don't think we can expect the "professionals" to seriously engage on RedMarx.


Point taken, sad that it could potentially get in the way of Marxist discourse, but what can you do.

Thoughts on the rest, or do you think I'm being a bit too grandiose about the whole thing and we should just leverage your blog and your connections?

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:01 am 
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(thanks for changing your style: the problem existed indeed for us only when we're logged off, and ie for everyone not a member).

On critiqueofcrisis blogger Sam Williams, he does not go into discussion in the comment sections (just once a month a long post). On the other hand the blogger Jehu (also on twitter, ASk.fm) at https://therealmovement.wordpress.com/ , is hyperactive, so forums are almost like too slow for him, he might respond, but not really in depth in topics you're asking/interested in.

Brendan of Kapitalism101 seems to have become inactive (working on a book iirc).


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone just wants their own little farm.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:48 pm 
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Nothing wrong with being grandiose, but it ain't gonna happen. Blogs are a result of the fragmentation of the class; its inability to organize a party of itself; to become a self-tribune, you should pardon the expression. We're not going to remedy that on an internet forum.

I'd be more than happy to direct everyone to this site, and post anything I write here simultaneously with what's on my blog-- or even a day ahead. But how much impact that will have....................???


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