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 Post subject: Discussion forum, Leicester/Birmingham UK
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:50 am 
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Don't really know where this should go, but for any comrades in the area who are free on Sunday, the Midlands Discussion Forum will be discussing self-management on Sunday at 2-6pm at the Secular Hall, Humberstone Gate, Leicester.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion forum in Leicester UK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Or, due to the weather, we won't; a couple of us turned up but couldn't get into the venue, so we went for coffee and a much more informal discussion instead.

So the discussion of self-management has been postponed, probably until March. We're hoping next month's meeting will go ahead as normal, weather permitting.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion forum in Leicester UK
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:29 pm 
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Blake's Baby wrote:
Don't really know where this should go, but for any comrades in the area who are free on Sunday, the Midlands Discussion Forum will be discussing self-management on Sunday at 2-6pm at the Secular Hall, Humberstone Gate, Leicester.



I wonder what is meant by "self-management"? If it means workers managing themselves within capitalism, and for the purposes of the bourgeoisie, then self-management is rubbish because what it means is SELF-EXPLOITATION. Why would anyone with an interest in communism want to discuss that unless to clarify that it's no good and not what we aim for. And if somebody somewhere is confusing the movement towards the self-organization of the wording class - essential for our emancipation from capital, and essential too if we are ever to start building a different and better society - with self-management, then think again. The two are different. We don't want to MANAGE ourselves. We will ORGANIZE OURSELVES and MANAGE the emerging communist society. Management is management of things under communism, not people. As workers we are currently managed by the bourgeoisie. But then, for them we are mere commodities to be manipulated.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion forum in Leicester UK
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:57 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Discussion forum in Leicester UK
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:27 am 
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Fred wrote:
...

I wonder what is meant by "self-management"? If it means workers managing themselves within capitalism, and for the purposes of the bourgeoisie, then self-management is rubbish because what it means is SELF-EXPLOITATION. Why would anyone with an interest in communism want to discuss that unless to clarify that it's no good and not what we aim for. And if somebody somewhere is confusing the movement towards the self-organization of the wording class - essential for our emancipation from capital, and essential too if we are ever to start building a different and better society - with self-management, then think again. The two are different. We don't want to MANAGE ourselves. We will ORGANIZE OURSELVES and MANAGE the emerging communist society. Management is management of things under communism, not people. As workers we are currently managed by the bourgeoisie. But then, for them we are mere commodities to be manipulated.


Firstly, thanks for taking an interest. The fact that you're putting forward different possibilities for what 'self-management' actually means or can be taken to mean, is one of the reasons why we need to clarify what it is and whether its useful.

Secondly, the discussion forum is not a forum of the Communist Left. Over the years many people of different political persuassions have come to it, anarchists, marxian socialists, council communists; members may have very different takes on the political 'project' we're engaged in.

As a case in point, I and another participant in the forum were standing outside, unable to gain entry to the building, when a comrade of ours came up; we thought he might be coming to the forum, and asked if he was attanding, having perhaps been invited by another participant we all know; but he said it was co-incidence and he didn't know about the meeting, he just happened to be passing and saw us standing by the doors. When we told him what the discussion was going to be about, he said 'that's going to be a short discussion: "I think self-management is great", "well I think self-management is really great"...'. It would have been good if he could have joined us for the forum. His point of view (he regards himself as an anarcho-syndicalist) would have been very different to that of the Left Communists present.

That's the thing about the forum; it's a place for people to discuss the theory, practice and history of the workers' movement, and the political implications of current issues. It's a political forum, it's not a political organisation. The point is clarification of individuals' politics, not agreement either between ourselves, or with a platform.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion forum, Leicester/Birmingham UK
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:32 pm 
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next meeting of the Midlands Discussion Forum is 1.30pm on Sunday 24th Feb at The Briar Rose, 25 Bennetts Hill Birmingham B2 5RE.

We're discussing decadence - all comrades are welcome to join us.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion forum, Leicester/Birmingham UK
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:17 am 
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Next Midlands Discussion Forum will be in Leicester on SATURDAY 23rd March. Please note that this is a change from our usual Sunday meetings.

We're meeting from 2-6pm at the Secular Hall on Humberstone Gate if any comrades are in the area. I'm afraid I'm not yet sure what the subject of the discussion will be, I'll post it as soon as we have a definite answer.

Any comrades wanting to come who don't know the way, or want meeting from the station or such like, please get in touch via PM, or email slothjabber at yahoo.co.uk or midlandsdf at yahoo.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion forum, Leicester/Birmingham UK
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Confirmation that we'll be discussing the presentation on self-management that we didn't manage to discuss in January.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion forum, Leicester/Birmingham UK
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:44 am 
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Are you using any particular texts, or just a more general discussion? Can't come to the discussion as working, but would be interested to here how the discussion goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion forum, Leicester/Birmingham UK
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:51 pm 
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One of the members has researched a presentation to get the discussion started by introducing the topic - sometimes we circulate that in advance, sometimes not - but there's no set reading list. Sometimes we've had a meeting on a particular pamphlet or text and then it really helps to have read it - for example we had a meeting a few years ago looking at Pannekoek's 'Why past revolutionary movements have failed', and one on Luxemburg's 'Mass Strike' a few years before that - but generally, people read up what they can and sometimes pass around recommendations for texts to look at.

Is that a help?


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