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 Post subject: Re: Being political
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:44 am 
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[quote="S.Artesian"][quote="Noa"]Articulating thought is a luxury (available time, literature) and in the immediate sense it is useless (it doesn't pay the rent). On top of that it can get you in trouble (and remember the hostility just online). Finally there is skepticism in the possibility and even the desirability of actually grasping something.


Reminds me of the old Borscht Belt joke:

"The food here is terrible."
"Yeah, and the portions are so small....."


What's the alternative? I mean it's what we do, no? Articulate thoughts. And "in the immediate sense, it's useless"-- it doesn't pay the rent-- is the flip side, and the complement to Keynes' "In the long run, we're all dead."

Be that as it may. One or two new comments in 7 days....? Bad business. Not that I want to argue about "a dose of Red Terror" again, or if it's possible for workers to be "objectively counterrevolutionary" against their own state.....but you know, Egypt's in turmoil; EU is acknowledging that Greece, Ireland, and Portugal will need more money; workers at China's 3rd largest shipbuilder haven't been paid in weeks... And there's always work to be done linking Marx's articulation of the contradictions in valorization to... overproduction and things like that.

I used to just use revleft as my source of news so I'm fairly **** at staying informed otherwise. I'm not really sure what to do at this point to try and revitalise this forum.
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 Post subject: Re: Being political
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Maybe we need to find another fairly large leftist forum and get kicked off of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Being political
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:44 pm 
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Discussing politics is really depressing, who'd have guessed?
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 Post subject: Re: Being political
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:35 am 
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Well, you certainly treat people who come in with different ideas like **** -- with some comrades main objective to win debating points rather than have a conversation. With the current level of activity and the composition, this site kind of sucks. Comrades, you should want diversity, if only to have some good discussions, not the left-comm circle jerk that this site seems to be. If you can't have a conversation with orthodox trots, you are in a tiny slice of sectarian hell.


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 Post subject: Re: Being political
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:11 pm 
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[quote="Lev Bronsteinovich"]Well, you certainly treat people who come in with different ideas like **** -- with some comrades main objective to win debating points rather than have a conversation. With the current level of activity and the composition, this site kind of sucks. Comrades, you should want diversity, if only to have some good discussions, not the left-comm circle jerk that this site seems to be. If you can't have a conversation with orthodox trots, you are in a tiny slice of sectarian hell.



That's not what sectarian means, at least not in a way that Marxists understand it. Marxists understand it to mean, putting up principals other than working class interests, not refusing to talk to other people.

We do have quite diverse opinions, but what all of us agree on, that you do not that makes us appear as a hive mind, is working class interests first and foremost.
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 Post subject: Re: Being political
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:48 pm 
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[quote="Lev Bronsteinovich"]Well, you certainly treat people who come in with different ideas like **** -- with some comrades main objective to win debating points rather than have a conversation. With the current level of activity and the composition, this site kind of sucks. Comrades, you should want diversity, if only to have some good discussions, not the left-comm circle jerk that this site seems to be. If you can't have a conversation with orthodox trots, you are in a tiny slice of sectarian hell.


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 Post subject: Re: Being political
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:26 pm 
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[quote="Lev Bronsteinovich"]Well, you certainly treat people who come in with different ideas like **** -- with some comrades main objective to win debating points rather than have a conversation. With the current level of activity and the composition, this site kind of sucks. Comrades, you should want diversity, if only to have some good discussions, not the left-comm circle jerk that this site seems to be. If you can't have a conversation with orthodox trots, you are in a tiny slice of sectarian hell.


What was it Marx said, "merciless criticism of everything in existence..."?? something like that.. anyway no whimpering allowed
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 Post subject: Re: Being political
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Well all of your self-congratulatory remarks aside -- as well as the asinine avuncular comment about sectarian. Sorry to tar you with that brush. I realize that you leftcomms could never be accused of being sectarian. For a Marxist, a sectarian is someone that refuses to work with or even talk with other groups or tendencies that want to fight against capitalism and for socialism. Of course, you don't think you are sectarian, sectarians never do.

As for the "merciless criticism" -- that's fine, but the few active comrades on this site don't explain their arguments -- they are just out to attack. And Karl Marx, you are not. I don't take it personally -- as a Trotskyist in the US over the past 35 years I've taken more than a little flack, some of it vicious. I don't like it, but I don't really give a ****. You should ask yourselves why this forum is so fucking dead. There is no interesting discussion. You attack anyone that doesn't hew to your extremely narrow political few as an alien that should be cast out. You don't do yourselves any favors by this. You should be seeking a wider audience. If people of my political ilk are deemed pro-capitalist and unworthy of a conversation, then you guys are totally screwed. Good luck finding the other 12 people in the world that share your beliefs.

I had hopes that this would be a lively and interesting forum where far leftists could exchange ideas and polemics. Sadly there are few posters and the degree of homogeneity is extreme. Revleft, which has many deep flaws, especially their love for restricting and banning people, at least has many different perspectives that are usually being presented and argued. I did not realize when I started here how small and arrow this forum is. Ah well.


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 Post subject: Re: Being political
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Lev Bronsteinovich wrote:
Well all of your self-congratulatory remarks aside -- as well as the asinine avuncular comment about sectarian. Sorry to tar you with that brush. I realize that you leftcomms could never be accused of being sectarian. For a Marxist, a sectarian is someone that refuses to work with or even talk with other groups or tendencies that want to fight against capitalism and for socialism. Of course, you don't think you are sectarian, sectarians never do.



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 Post subject: Re: Being political
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:24 pm 
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You should ask yourselves why this forum is so fucking dead. There is no interesting discussion.


There is something discouraging here, what it is ain't exactly clear.


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