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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of the Economy of the USSR, other Eastern Bloc
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:24 pm 
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What about them? I can't say that I'm convinced that commodity production existed in the Soviet Union.

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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of the Economy of the USSR, other Eastern Bloc
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:35 am 
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Ostrinski wrote:
It would be nice if there were some kind of work that objectively examines and documents the different characterizations of the Soviet Union on the left. I'm not ready to call it capitalist but I certainly don't think it was a worker's state, of any kind.

I think the user Q on revleft (not sure if he's made his way here) has an interesting analysis wherein he considers it a "target economy," and not a planned economy. The target economy, he says, is bureautacially administerd and sets arbitrary mandates for itself that don't correlate with the wants and needs of society.


Q is just a poor man's Hillel Ticktin/Mike Macnair.

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- F. Engels, letter to Conrad Schmidt, August 1890


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of the Economy of the USSR, other Eastern Bloc
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:45 am 
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Ostrinski wrote:
It would be nice if there were some kind of work that objectively examines and documents the different characterizations of the Soviet Union on the left. I'm not ready to call it capitalist but I certainly don't think it was a worker's state, of any kind.


There's Chattopadhyay's The Marxian Conception of Capital and the Soviet Experience which goes into the ideas of a non-capitalist mode of production for the soviet union, but I don't know how much worth it is as I've never read that far. It's in chapter 6:

http://libcom.org/files/Chattopadhyay,% ... rience.pdf
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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of the Economy of the USSR, other Eastern Bloc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:04 pm 
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The Commune wrote:
Ostrinski wrote:
It would be nice if there were some kind of work that objectively examines and documents the different characterizations of the Soviet Union on the left. I'm not ready to call it capitalist but I certainly don't think it was a worker's state, of any kind.

I think the user Q on revleft (not sure if he's made his way here) has an interesting analysis wherein he considers it a "target economy," and not a planned economy. The target economy, he says, is bureautacially administerd and sets arbitrary mandates for itself that don't correlate with the wants and needs of society.


Q is just a poor man's Hillel Ticktin/Mike Macnair.
Well, he is an Orthodox Marxist much like them. Don't see how he's a "poor man's" version of these guys though, he's very intelligent.

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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of the Economy of the USSR, other Eastern Bloc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:26 pm 
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That's called Social-Democrat not Orthodox Marxist. I doubt that Orthodox Marxists even exist or have existed for that matter...

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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of the Economy of the USSR, other Eastern Bloc
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:41 pm 
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How is Q a social democrat?

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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of the Economy of the USSR, other Eastern Bloc
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:39 am 
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Ostrinski wrote:
It would be nice if there were some kind of work that objectively examines and documents the different characterizations of the Soviet Union on the left.

My friend Grenzer has informed me that there is such a work, Western Marxism and the Soviet Union: A Survey of Critical Theories and Debates Since 1917 by Marcel van der Linden. It goes in depth into a great number of leftist analyses on the Soviet economy, even the really obscure ones.

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"There is no trace of utopianism in Marx, in the sense that he invented or imagined a 'new society.' No, he studied the birth of the new society from the old, the forms of transition from the latter to the former as a natural historical process. He examined the actual experience of the mass proletarian movement and tried to draw practical lessons from it. He 'learned' from the Commune, like all the great revolutionary thinkers who were not afraid to learn from the experience of the great movements of the oppressed classes, and who never preached pedantic 'sermons.'"- Lenin


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of the Economy of the USSR, other Eastern Bloc
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:50 am 
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Ostrinski wrote:
How is Q a social democrat?

Let's see: he's DNZ's monkey spanner, which means that he's pro-mass party (in 21st century?), pro-elections, he supports German Labour Law idiocy, such as workers councils, he supports anti-fascism and identity politics, he's pro-European Union (for WORKERS EUROPE!!!!), his pro-union and essentially reformist, he supports left wing of capital... this is what I remember from his posts, which I've started to skip after some time (because, unlike DNZ he's not funny, but quite sterile).

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The worst sin we commit is that we degrade our political and organisational tasks to the level of the immediate, “palpable”, “concrete” interests of the everyday economic struggle; yet they keep singing to us the same refrain: Lend the economic struggle itself a political character! We repeat: this kind of thing displays as much “sense for the realities of life” as was displayed by the hero in the popular fable who cried out to a passing funeral procession, “Many happy returns of the day!”
Lenin, What Is To Be Done?
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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of the Economy of the USSR, other Eastern Bloc
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:37 pm 
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I'm not sure how to word this but... would it be possible to see, or the apply, Marx's crisis theory to the economies of the USSR and Eastern Bloc? I'm not very well read on the ups and downs in any great detail of those economies after Stalin kicked the bucket.


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of the Economy of the USSR, other Eastern Bloc
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Rooster wrote:
I'm not sure how to word this but... would it be possible to see, or the apply, Marx's crisis theory to the economies of the USSR and Eastern Bloc? I'm not very well read on the ups and downs in any great detail of those economies after Stalin kicked the bucket.



That would be neat; but actually, I don't think it's possible to apply Marx's "crisis theory" to the fSU, or any capitalist country, separate and apart from applying it to that country's situation in the world markets, its interconnections with capitalism as a whole.

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